3 ms·

> Yes an independent small-time developer cannot create a browser engine from scratch today, but Apple does not fall into that category. What do you think of M

by Shank 5y ago

> Yes an independent small-time developer cannot create a browser engine from scratch today, but Apple does not fall into that category. What do you think of Mozilla and Servo? Because quite honestly, I think a moderately sized team should be able to accomplish it with enough time. Yet Mozilla canned the Servo team. It feels like practically nobody can create a standards compliant browser engine from scratch these days.

paxys 5y ago
Mozilla has expenses and revenues approaching a billion dollars a year, employs 1000+ people, and can still barely keep up. I wouldn't classify them as moderately sized.
- D13Fd 5y ago
  One problem is that a lot (most?) of those resources go to things other than the browser.
- croes 5y ago
  Add they depend on Googles money. I guess Google is paying to prevent Chromium becoming a browser engine monopoly.
- whywhywhywhy 5y ago
  >employs 1000+ people How many are actually working on the browser?
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    The number of people actually working on the browser doesn't change the company size.
- rvz 5y ago
  > revenues approaching a billion dollars a year 80% of revenues which the money is from a single partner called 'Google'. The future of the web is literally in Google's hands, and it is definitely not going to be any more private. Mozilla appears to have given up the privacy-first browser selling point and has accepted getting paid by the anti-privacy club.
  - rvz 5y ago
    To Downvoters: So this is not true? After looking at this again, this goes back even before Google became a direct competitor. In 2007, Mozilla was actually going to walk away from Google's millions since they said "We've spent a lot of time and energy making sure that Google understands that it cannot turn us into an arm of Google" [0] This was an effort to make money without the reliance on Google. Maybe this was the scare that made Google paranoid enough to create their own browser. which first released in 2008. Since then, Mozilla knew that they were in trouble and Google became a direct competitor whilst they were still funding them and they ended up not walking away from Google's millions. Ever since Chrome came along, Firefox usage was struggling ever since. [1] Google's millions made up for 75% - 84% of Mozilla's entire revenue. Now today, it has become a two horse race with tons of Chrome-based browsers and only Safari competing against it. With users switching to the Chrome ecosystem, Mozilla (and Firefox) is still on life support and dependent on Google. Even Microsoft Edge even jumped ahead of it [2]. Just like how Nintendo turned Sony into a competitor out of a partnership gone wrong, Mozilla turned Google into a competitor all by themselves and given they are still unable to walk away from them, they have to deal with a partner that is against their entire mission statement. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20120105090543/https://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9044160/Mozilla_can_live_without_Google_s_money_Baker_says_ https://web.archive.org/web/20120105090543/https://www.compu... [1] https://www.theverge.com/2011/12/5/2612918/future-of-firefoxs-google-search-partnership-remains-uncertain https://www.theverge.com/2011/12/5/2612918/future-of-firefox... [2] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop-mobile-tablet/worldwide/#yearly-2009-2020 https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop-mobi...
- maccolgan 5y ago
  IIRC Mozilla has a foundation is dead in the water

by Shank 5y ago

paxys 5y ago

Mozilla has expenses and revenues approaching a billion dollars a year, employs 1000+ people, and can still barely keep up. I wouldn't classify them as moderately sized.

D13Fd 5y ago
One problem is that a lot (most?) of those resources go to things other than the browser.
croes 5y ago
Add they depend on Googles money. I guess Google is paying to prevent Chromium becoming a browser engine monopoly.
whywhywhywhy 5y ago
>employs 1000+ people How many are actually working on the browser?
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  The number of people actually working on the browser doesn't change the company size.
rvz 5y ago
> revenues approaching a billion dollars a year 80% of revenues which the money is from a single partner called 'Google'. The future of the web is literally in Google's hands, and it is definitely not going to be any more private. Mozilla appears to have given up the privacy-first browser selling point and has accepted getting paid by the anti-privacy club.
- rvz 5y ago
  To Downvoters: So this is not true? After looking at this again, this goes back even before Google became a direct competitor. In 2007, Mozilla was actually going to walk away from Google's millions since they said "We've spent a lot of time and energy making sure that Google understands that it cannot turn us into an arm of Google" [0] This was an effort to make money without the reliance on Google. Maybe this was the scare that made Google paranoid enough to create their own browser. which first released in 2008. Since then, Mozilla knew that they were in trouble and Google became a direct competitor whilst they were still funding them and they ended up not walking away from Google's millions. Ever since Chrome came along, Firefox usage was struggling ever since. [1] Google's millions made up for 75% - 84% of Mozilla's entire revenue. Now today, it has become a two horse race with tons of Chrome-based browsers and only Safari competing against it. With users switching to the Chrome ecosystem, Mozilla (and Firefox) is still on life support and dependent on Google. Even Microsoft Edge even jumped ahead of it [2]. Just like how Nintendo turned Sony into a competitor out of a partnership gone wrong, Mozilla turned Google into a competitor all by themselves and given they are still unable to walk away from them, they have to deal with a partner that is against their entire mission statement. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20120105090543/https://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9044160/Mozilla_can_live_without_Google_s_money_Baker_says_ https://web.archive.org/web/20120105090543/https://www.compu... [1] https://www.theverge.com/2011/12/5/2612918/future-of-firefoxs-google-search-partnership-remains-uncertain https://www.theverge.com/2011/12/5/2612918/future-of-firefox... [2] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop-mobile-tablet/worldwide/#yearly-2009-2020 https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop-mobi...
maccolgan 5y ago
IIRC Mozilla has a foundation is dead in the water