4 ms·

Many comments here take issue with previous warnings that haven't materialized, that dealines are missed/bad. It sounds like we're trying hard to not do anythi

Many comments here take issue with previous warnings that haven't materialized, that dealines are missed/bad. It sounds like we're trying hard to not do anything because those naughty people in the '60s and'70s cried wolf and there was no wolf. Well, I'm one of those 70's people. Turned 51 this year. And I try. I have a BMW I hardly ever drive because I bought an electric-assist cargo bike. I use that bike for the school run (~50km per day). I do the grocery shopping with it. I take the recyclable trash to the recycling yard, about 7km away. There are some other things, like my herb garden, reducing the numbers of electric items in the house, eating less meat (this one is hard but we're winning slowly). Train when we go on vacation. We can criticise the old folk, call foul on the scare tactics being used on us these days... ...or we can take it on board and start doing the little things. And OMG imagine, we could maybe even stop looking for ways to criticize the government and those people from long ago, cut out the negativity, and stop making fun of Prius drivers. Are we going to fix this or what?

jacobr1 5y ago
One of the problems that the article started to articulate, but didn't fully cover is that even if everyone on the planet did similar things in the personal lives ... it is not enough. Energy use and emissions are all about industry. To a certain extent one can patronize low-carbon emissions businesses, but most of those are either low carbon to begin with (often with high margins) or are using bullshit offsets. Really that only things that can reduce emissions are regulations & taxes or new technologies. And maybe geoengineering, but that is speculative enough to not enter serious policy debates. Applied R&D is incentived very heavily via taxes, so we don't need to mess around there too much. Basic research should be better funded though. Probably the best proposals we've seen are the various forms of cap & trade for domestic industry or treaty partners adopting a common market, with tariffs for foreign production outside of cap&trade regime. The EU's "Fit for 55" is the only tangible step in this direction I've seen.
- FourthProtocol 5y ago
  So it's better to just throw up or hands and do nothing? If what I do isn't enough, surely it contributes something, right? If we all only ever think of this as someone else's problem, nothing will change. The guy that passes legislation to fix this also has trash to recycle, ideally has an EV, and hopefully a son or daughter that looks up to the likes of Greta Thunberg... The comments here sound so fatalist. It disappeared off the home page really fast too which suggests most don't want to face climate change. Which is a shame. Our legacy could be amazing. But, for example, lauding Bezos for his ego trip to space seems more to people's tastes than to object to the planet-destroying consumer culture his company promotes. This is right up there with the absurdity of colonising Mars when people are still starving on earth.
  - blooalien 5y ago
    I wish more people thought like you about things like this. I'm in my mid-fifties and been riding a bike most of my life rather than buying a car; I try my best to recycle; I try not to waste; etc, etc; and been doing all these things since I saw as a child many scientists give advance warning on TV and in various magazines and other publications about pretty much all the things that are now happening. Truth is most of the messes the world is in right now were avoidable, except that the vast majority of humans would rather ridicule and harass anyone trying to make a better tomorrow than allow anyone to succeed at such "lofty" and "naïve" goals. I've truly lost all hope for humanity as a whole, because the percentage of people who actually care about anything beyond themselves is vanishingly small.
  - jacobr1 5y ago
    No, the argument is that we should be actively supporting changes industrial regulation. That might mean writing wonky letters to congress or the editor, it might be protesting a factory, it might mean boycotting a company with certain practices. It certainly means being involved in the political process. None of that means one shouldn't also make changes their personal lifestyle, but the problem is that plenty of people see that as sufficient. "Well, I'm a vegan and bike to work, so I've done my part." Or worse, a more watered down "I recycle." Those views are just a bad as the person that considers the problem too big and throws up their hands in defeat. > If what I do isn't enough, surely it contributes something, right? No, it quite possibly might NOT contribute something worthwhile. At least not enough to change the climate. _So we need to make it enough_ We need ways for citizens to contribute more meaningfully than virtue signaling.
Causality1 5y ago
One phone call to your congressman is worth a thousand skipped hamburgers.
- FourthProtocol 5y ago
  Why not both?
  - Causality1 5y ago
    If you can, sure. This is a war that can only be won at the voting booth. Willpower is a finite resource. It should be spent efficiently.

jacobr1 5y ago

One of the problems that the article started to articulate, but didn't fully cover is that even if everyone on the planet did similar things in the personal lives ... it is not enough. Energy use and emissions are all about industry. To a certain extent one can patronize low-carbon emissions businesses, but most of those are either low carbon to begin with (often with high margins) or are using bullshit offsets. Really that only things that can reduce emissions are regulations & taxes or new technologies. And maybe geoengineering, but that is speculative enough to not enter serious policy debates. Applied R&D is incentived very heavily via taxes, so we don't need to mess around there too much. Basic research should be better funded though. Probably the best proposals we've seen are the various forms of cap & trade for domestic industry or treaty partners adopting a common market, with tariffs for foreign production outside of cap&trade regime. The EU's "Fit for 55" is the only tangible step in this direction I've seen.

FourthProtocol 5y ago
So it's better to just throw up or hands and do nothing? If what I do isn't enough, surely it contributes something, right? If we all only ever think of this as someone else's problem, nothing will change. The guy that passes legislation to fix this also has trash to recycle, ideally has an EV, and hopefully a son or daughter that looks up to the likes of Greta Thunberg... The comments here sound so fatalist. It disappeared off the home page really fast too which suggests most don't want to face climate change. Which is a shame. Our legacy could be amazing. But, for example, lauding Bezos for his ego trip to space seems more to people's tastes than to object to the planet-destroying consumer culture his company promotes. This is right up there with the absurdity of colonising Mars when people are still starving on earth.
- blooalien 5y ago
  I wish more people thought like you about things like this. I'm in my mid-fifties and been riding a bike most of my life rather than buying a car; I try my best to recycle; I try not to waste; etc, etc; and been doing all these things since I saw as a child many scientists give advance warning on TV and in various magazines and other publications about pretty much all the things that are now happening. Truth is most of the messes the world is in right now were avoidable, except that the vast majority of humans would rather ridicule and harass anyone trying to make a better tomorrow than allow anyone to succeed at such "lofty" and "naïve" goals. I've truly lost all hope for humanity as a whole, because the percentage of people who actually care about anything beyond themselves is vanishingly small.
- jacobr1 5y ago
  No, the argument is that we should be actively supporting changes industrial regulation. That might mean writing wonky letters to congress or the editor, it might be protesting a factory, it might mean boycotting a company with certain practices. It certainly means being involved in the political process. None of that means one shouldn't also make changes their personal lifestyle, but the problem is that plenty of people see that as sufficient. "Well, I'm a vegan and bike to work, so I've done my part." Or worse, a more watered down "I recycle." Those views are just a bad as the person that considers the problem too big and throws up their hands in defeat. > If what I do isn't enough, surely it contributes something, right? No, it quite possibly might NOT contribute something worthwhile. At least not enough to change the climate. _So we need to make it enough_ We need ways for citizens to contribute more meaningfully than virtue signaling.

Causality1 5y ago

One phone call to your congressman is worth a thousand skipped hamburgers.

FourthProtocol 5y ago
Why not both?
- Causality1 5y ago
  If you can, sure. This is a war that can only be won at the voting booth. Willpower is a finite resource. It should be spent efficiently.