5 ms·

It is a sad state of affairs that Tech conferences are now having to institute acceptable behavior guidelines. Looking at some of the Past events, I suspect t

It is a sad state of affairs that Tech conferences are now having to institute acceptable behavior guidelines. Looking at some of the Past events, I suspect that at least some of this behavior is because some of the presenters want to be seen as "edgy". They will throw up a provocative image or make a sexist or borderline racist/Offensive comment to depict how much of a rebel they are. Does this really add to the Technical weight or clarity of their talk? Personally speaking, I would never work with anybody who did this - no matter if they were a 10X productive super rockstar who invents new languages on the side.

diolpah 15y ago
"Personally speaking, I would never work with anybody who did this - no matter if they were a 10X productive super rockstar who invents new languages on the side." Thank you for volunteering to help those of us who prefer to hire on merit. More for us.
- Uchikoma 15y ago
  I wish you much fun with hiring such a guy and exploding your team.
- michaelchisari 15y ago
  Appropriate behavior doesn't factor into your definition of merit? Do you hire purely on code quality?
- pyre 15y ago
  So as long as someone is a 'rockstar' coder, it doesn't matter if he/she destroys the morale for the rest of your employees? <sarcasm> I guess it's just their loss. They should feel privileged to be working with <rockstar coder>! </sarcasm>
  - diolpah 15y ago
    Any organization that maintains an institutional fear of saying the "wrong thing" destroys its ability to effectively communicate such that the morale will have already hit rock bottom by the time someone actually does get offended.
    - pyre 15y ago
      So the only way to combat being afraid of offending people is to purposely be offensive?
  - rimantas 15y ago
    If a slide with bikini-clad women with laptops can destroy your teem's morale you have a bigger problems to worry about.
    - pyre 15y ago
      My take-away is that the 'rockstar coder' feels the need to be offensive to impress others with his/her edgy-ness. The idea that people who do these things at conferences, would never do them anywhere else, is a little naive. The 'slide with a bikini-clad woman' is more likely a symptom, than a self-contained aberration.
cdavid 15y ago
Note that Tim most likely refered to actual physical aggression, something which is arguably worse than making "edgy" presentations (the article there mentioned OSCON: http://lwn.net/Articles/417952/ http://lwn.net/Articles/417952/).
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  I'm curious - why does a conference need a policy about such things at all? Are local laws against violent acts insufficient?
  - michaelchisari 15y ago
    Are local laws against violent acts insufficient? Yes, because perfectly legal behaviors can still be very alienating, and the homogeny that results from alienating behavior shows a lack of foresight on the part of conference organizers and the open source scene in general.
    - yummyfajitas 15y ago
      It is intellectually dishonest to conflate criminal acts (what ccdavid and I were discussing) with speech you disapprove of.
      - michaelchisari 15y ago
        You asked a simple question, why is a harassment policy necessary when laws should be sufficient, and I gave a simple answer, because perfectly legal behavior can still be alienating and damaging to the success of social structures.
  - cdavid 15y ago
    One reason may be that for big conferences, the audience is international, and may no know what is considered ok, inappropriate, and plainly illegal. It also sends a signal: several female open source contributors have written about the fact that their complaints has been completely disregarded by the conference organizers. Stepping up publicly against those behaviors would make it harder to do so later, if only from a PR POV.
wladimir 15y ago
I'm all for freedom of self expression. Yes it means there could be a bad joke (damn you!) here and there, or a comment that is edgier than it should be, but hey we're all human... I do not believe creativity can thrive if you need to sanitize every word, and make everything perfectly dry and businesslike, with the organizers ready to chime in if you make any remotely sexual or racist comment...
- suprgeek 15y ago
  Please do not present a false choice - It is not "be sexist, racist, offensive" OR "be dry, businesslike with every word sanitized". Frankly presenters who indulge in this kind of behavior are giving in to the worst kind of intellectual laziness. If the only way they can get people to pay attention to their "incredibly dry sanitized" presentation is by making sexist/racist/<offensive> slides then that talk has no place in the conference to begin with. This is exactly the kind of naive attitude that keeps women away - as another poster has linked would you consider any of this acceptable? http://lwn.net/Articles/417952/ http://lwn.net/Articles/417952/
  - wladimir 15y ago
    No matter how you try to dress it up, it's simply a matter of (dis)taste. You may not like certain comments, and other people may not like some of your comments. And "that keeps the women away" ahum, so women are now suddenly a group that need to be protected against bad speech? How is that not sexist? Women are not an uniform group with all the same preferences. And yes, gross misbehavior is bad. But more happened there than just some bad words at a talk. Some people in public misbehaved and harassed (specific!) women. There should be guidelines against that, not against bad jokes in talks.

diolpah 15y ago

"Personally speaking, I would never work with anybody who did this - no matter if they were a 10X productive super rockstar who invents new languages on the side." Thank you for volunteering to help those of us who prefer to hire on merit. More for us.

Uchikoma 15y ago
I wish you much fun with hiring such a guy and exploding your team.
michaelchisari 15y ago
Appropriate behavior doesn't factor into your definition of merit? Do you hire purely on code quality?
pyre 15y ago
So as long as someone is a 'rockstar' coder, it doesn't matter if he/she destroys the morale for the rest of your employees? <sarcasm> I guess it's just their loss. They should feel privileged to be working with <rockstar coder>! </sarcasm>
- diolpah 15y ago
  Any organization that maintains an institutional fear of saying the "wrong thing" destroys its ability to effectively communicate such that the morale will have already hit rock bottom by the time someone actually does get offended.
  - pyre 15y ago
    So the only way to combat being afraid of offending people is to purposely be offensive?
- rimantas 15y ago
  If a slide with bikini-clad women with laptops can destroy your teem's morale you have a bigger problems to worry about.
  - pyre 15y ago
    My take-away is that the 'rockstar coder' feels the need to be offensive to impress others with his/her edgy-ness. The idea that people who do these things at conferences, would never do them anywhere else, is a little naive. The 'slide with a bikini-clad woman' is more likely a symptom, than a self-contained aberration.

cdavid 15y ago

Note that Tim most likely refered to actual physical aggression, something which is arguably worse than making "edgy" presentations (the article there mentioned OSCON: http://lwn.net/Articles/417952/ http://lwn.net/Articles/417952/).

yummyfajitas 15y ago
I'm curious - why does a conference need a policy about such things at all? Are local laws against violent acts insufficient?
- michaelchisari 15y ago
  Are local laws against violent acts insufficient? Yes, because perfectly legal behaviors can still be very alienating, and the homogeny that results from alienating behavior shows a lack of foresight on the part of conference organizers and the open source scene in general.
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    It is intellectually dishonest to conflate criminal acts (what ccdavid and I were discussing) with speech you disapprove of.
    - michaelchisari 15y ago
      You asked a simple question, why is a harassment policy necessary when laws should be sufficient, and I gave a simple answer, because perfectly legal behavior can still be alienating and damaging to the success of social structures.
- cdavid 15y ago
  One reason may be that for big conferences, the audience is international, and may no know what is considered ok, inappropriate, and plainly illegal. It also sends a signal: several female open source contributors have written about the fact that their complaints has been completely disregarded by the conference organizers. Stepping up publicly against those behaviors would make it harder to do so later, if only from a PR POV.

wladimir 15y ago

I'm all for freedom of self expression. Yes it means there could be a bad joke (damn you!) here and there, or a comment that is edgier than it should be, but hey we're all human... I do not believe creativity can thrive if you need to sanitize every word, and make everything perfectly dry and businesslike, with the organizers ready to chime in if you make any remotely sexual or racist comment...

suprgeek 15y ago
Please do not present a false choice - It is not "be sexist, racist, offensive" OR "be dry, businesslike with every word sanitized". Frankly presenters who indulge in this kind of behavior are giving in to the worst kind of intellectual laziness. If the only way they can get people to pay attention to their "incredibly dry sanitized" presentation is by making sexist/racist/<offensive> slides then that talk has no place in the conference to begin with. This is exactly the kind of naive attitude that keeps women away - as another poster has linked would you consider any of this acceptable? http://lwn.net/Articles/417952/ http://lwn.net/Articles/417952/
- wladimir 15y ago
  No matter how you try to dress it up, it's simply a matter of (dis)taste. You may not like certain comments, and other people may not like some of your comments. And "that keeps the women away" ahum, so women are now suddenly a group that need to be protected against bad speech? How is that not sexist? Women are not an uniform group with all the same preferences. And yes, gross misbehavior is bad. But more happened there than just some bad words at a talk. Some people in public misbehaved and harassed (specific!) women. There should be guidelines against that, not against bad jokes in talks.