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This may help - seems like the author tried to in some places: > For animators who wanted to work outside of TV conventions at the time, MTV became a destinati

by hhs 5y ago

This may help - seems like the author tried to in some places: > For animators who wanted to work outside of TV conventions at the time, MTV became a destination and a laboratory. According to Maureen Furniss, who is an animation historian at the California Institute of the Arts, "[MTV] showed people in the public things they had never seen before in animation and gave opportunities to a lot of independent animators and experimental animators." > "MTV animation was truly an outgrowth and extension of MTV on-air promotion and MTV on-air promotion was incredible. It was a creative laboratory, " Terkuhle says. "We were not only allowed to take risks, but encouraged to take risks and the executives had our back." > That ethos of a creative laboratory that took risks drew show creators to pitch and push for ideas that wouldn't end up elsewhere on television.

boomboomsubban 5y ago
Calling slightly edgier cartoons "disrupting cable" seems like a stretch.
- grawprog 5y ago
  It might be easy these days with the amount of edgy cartoons that exist now to forget back then, there really wasn't any. Shows like The Simpsons, Ren and Stimpy, Beavis and Butthead, and even Daria I suppose were not really like any other cartoons out there. They subverted the tropes everyone had taken for granted since the 50's or so that TV was expected to have. They outraged parents and the extreme conservative groups that wielded fairly significant power at the time. Shortly before that we had 'the Dungeons and Dragons' scares and it was the time of the violent video game and explicit music crackdowns. Those cartoons became targets for those same kinds of people. Without those shows, we probably wouldn't have the kinds of cartoons we have today. I would definitely include more than just the two cartoons in the article and MTV as the sole disruptors of cable. But, the cartoons of that era were definitely disruptive in a way that's hard to appreciate without experiencing.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    >It might be easy these days with the amount of edgy cartoons that exist now to forget back then, there really wasn't any. You're talking about shows up to twenty years removed from Bakshi cartoons like Fritz the Cat or his eighties Mighty Mouse show. The Simpsons and such definitely popularized the medium, but it didn't create it. >Shortly before that we had 'the Dungeons and Dragons' scares and it was the time of the violent video game and explicit music crackdowns. There is always content that is slightly edgier that conservatives freak out over. Some outraged people didn't disrupt cable, cable embraced the cartoons and pushed things further with things like the creation of Adult Swim.
    - grawprog 5y ago
      Fritz the cat was a feature film not a TV show. Mighty Mouse was an actual kids show cancelled over a reference to a character supposedly snorting a line of something and Bakshi's reputation. There was a bit of separation between TV cartoons and feature length ones back then. You're correct, the precedent for adult oriented animation had been set years before, but I wouldn't really compare movies like that, or even the more adult oriented anime shows and films in Japan at the time to that era of western TV cartoons. As far as western TV cartoons went, prior to those late 80's, early 90's shows, there wasn't really any like them.
      - boomboomsubban 5y ago
        >As far as western TV cartoons went, prior to those late 80's, early 90's shows, there wasn't really any like them. Virtually all those shows creators credit Bakshi as an influence though. Hell, the asshole co-creator of Ren and Stimpy worked with him on Mighty Mouse. They likely needed cable to be able to successfully move to television, but I don't see how they disrupted cable. edit they changed the title to "upended animation." While I stil think it's a slight overstatement, that title at least represents what the article is about.
        grawprog 5y ago
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Not even slightly edgier. There was stuff on the 90s that's so weird it wouldn't even get a Netflix / Disney / ATT meeting these days. Ren & Stimpy, Powerpuff Girls, Pinky & the Brain, Magic School Bus, Johnny Bravo, I Am Weasel, Freakazoid!, Eek! the Cat, Earthworm Jim, Dexter's Lab, Courage the Cowardly Dog, Captain Planet, Rocko's Modern Life, Talespin, Tiny Toon Adventures, VeggieTales, Captain Planet, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, Bonkers, Animaniacs.
  - PhasmaFelis 5y ago
    Hang on, are you saying TaleSpin, Magic School Bus, and VeggieTales were edgy and transgressive? There's a lot of good shows on that list, yes, and they broke plenty of ground in terms of kids' animation quality, but only a few of them were pushing the envelope of "what you can get away with on TV."
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      What you can get away with on TV also implies what TV will broadcast. A lot of those shows clearly didn't fit in the green-light mold.
  - jdofaz 5y ago
    Disney via Hulu has an Animaniacs revival that includes Pinky & the Brain
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      I've seen it. It's a decent effort, but doesn't live up to the original. But then again, I'm not sure our current times even allow that kind of humor anymore.
      - dllthomas 5y ago
        I've been rewatching the original. The original doesn't live up to the original.
      - 5y ago
beamatronic 5y ago
I recall Aeon Flux from around this era
- bredren 5y ago
  Aeon flux is mentioned and the creator is quoted in this article. AF was very influential on me. We did not have cable when I was a kid, but my grandparents did. I saw aeon flux there and I think it sent me toward sci-fi / horror. Many of the shirts had frightening or bad endings for the hero. Beavis and Butthead got cut down some when Beavis was no longer allowed to say “Fire!” I also think Beavis and Butthead paved the way for Ren and Stimpy.
  - EvanAnderson 5y ago
    "Ren and Stimpy" predates "Beavis and Butthead" by a couple of years (at least the full "Beavis and Butthead" show-- the shorts may well be older). The original "Aeon Flux" shorts on Liquid Television had an aesthetic that was just creepy to me. Definitely a horror aspect.
    - bredren 5y ago
      You’re right, I had this reversed in my head. Both cartoons sparked controversy as I remember it. The aeon flux stuff seemed to portray a dystopia. It seemed like the hero would falter. I don’t remember anything like it in animation.
    - garren 5y ago
      Aeon flux on liquid television was absolutely weird, and that’s what made it so fun to watch. The longer versions that came out later were a huge disappointment. The B&B shorts on Liquid television were the first I’d seen of that show (“fro-o-o-o-g baseba-a-a-all!”).
mlok 5y ago
The show for these experimental animations was called "MTV's oddities" [1] and my favorite one was The Maxx [2]. I've never seen anything better actually. [1] https://youtu.be/JlkzHSDoMpc https://youtu.be/JlkzHSDoMpc [2] https://vimeo.com/40704262 https://vimeo.com/40704262
- progmetaldev 5y ago
  This was great, along with The Head which was on right before The Maxx. An average Joe wakes up with a giant head, and out pops a weird alien named Roy. Of course everyone says it, but MTV was so much better back then (I was also a huge fan of Headbanger's Ball on Saturday nights).

by hhs 5y ago

boomboomsubban 5y ago

Calling slightly edgier cartoons "disrupting cable" seems like a stretch.

grawprog 5y ago
It might be easy these days with the amount of edgy cartoons that exist now to forget back then, there really wasn't any. Shows like The Simpsons, Ren and Stimpy, Beavis and Butthead, and even Daria I suppose were not really like any other cartoons out there. They subverted the tropes everyone had taken for granted since the 50's or so that TV was expected to have. They outraged parents and the extreme conservative groups that wielded fairly significant power at the time. Shortly before that we had 'the Dungeons and Dragons' scares and it was the time of the violent video game and explicit music crackdowns. Those cartoons became targets for those same kinds of people. Without those shows, we probably wouldn't have the kinds of cartoons we have today. I would definitely include more than just the two cartoons in the article and MTV as the sole disruptors of cable. But, the cartoons of that era were definitely disruptive in a way that's hard to appreciate without experiencing.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  >It might be easy these days with the amount of edgy cartoons that exist now to forget back then, there really wasn't any. You're talking about shows up to twenty years removed from Bakshi cartoons like Fritz the Cat or his eighties Mighty Mouse show. The Simpsons and such definitely popularized the medium, but it didn't create it. >Shortly before that we had 'the Dungeons and Dragons' scares and it was the time of the violent video game and explicit music crackdowns. There is always content that is slightly edgier that conservatives freak out over. Some outraged people didn't disrupt cable, cable embraced the cartoons and pushed things further with things like the creation of Adult Swim.
  - grawprog 5y ago
    Fritz the cat was a feature film not a TV show. Mighty Mouse was an actual kids show cancelled over a reference to a character supposedly snorting a line of something and Bakshi's reputation. There was a bit of separation between TV cartoons and feature length ones back then. You're correct, the precedent for adult oriented animation had been set years before, but I wouldn't really compare movies like that, or even the more adult oriented anime shows and films in Japan at the time to that era of western TV cartoons. As far as western TV cartoons went, prior to those late 80's, early 90's shows, there wasn't really any like them.
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      >As far as western TV cartoons went, prior to those late 80's, early 90's shows, there wasn't really any like them. Virtually all those shows creators credit Bakshi as an influence though. Hell, the asshole co-creator of Ren and Stimpy worked with him on Mighty Mouse. They likely needed cable to be able to successfully move to television, but I don't see how they disrupted cable. edit they changed the title to "upended animation." While I stil think it's a slight overstatement, that title at least represents what the article is about.
      - grawprog 5y ago
ethbr0 5y ago
Not even slightly edgier. There was stuff on the 90s that's so weird it wouldn't even get a Netflix / Disney / ATT meeting these days. Ren & Stimpy, Powerpuff Girls, Pinky & the Brain, Magic School Bus, Johnny Bravo, I Am Weasel, Freakazoid!, Eek! the Cat, Earthworm Jim, Dexter's Lab, Courage the Cowardly Dog, Captain Planet, Rocko's Modern Life, Talespin, Tiny Toon Adventures, VeggieTales, Captain Planet, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, Bonkers, Animaniacs.
- PhasmaFelis 5y ago
  Hang on, are you saying TaleSpin, Magic School Bus, and VeggieTales were edgy and transgressive? There's a lot of good shows on that list, yes, and they broke plenty of ground in terms of kids' animation quality, but only a few of them were pushing the envelope of "what you can get away with on TV."
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    What you can get away with on TV also implies what TV will broadcast. A lot of those shows clearly didn't fit in the green-light mold.
- jdofaz 5y ago
  Disney via Hulu has an Animaniacs revival that includes Pinky & the Brain
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    I've seen it. It's a decent effort, but doesn't live up to the original. But then again, I'm not sure our current times even allow that kind of humor anymore.
    - dllthomas 5y ago
      I've been rewatching the original. The original doesn't live up to the original.
    - 5y ago

beamatronic 5y ago

I recall Aeon Flux from around this era

bredren 5y ago
Aeon flux is mentioned and the creator is quoted in this article. AF was very influential on me. We did not have cable when I was a kid, but my grandparents did. I saw aeon flux there and I think it sent me toward sci-fi / horror. Many of the shirts had frightening or bad endings for the hero. Beavis and Butthead got cut down some when Beavis was no longer allowed to say “Fire!” I also think Beavis and Butthead paved the way for Ren and Stimpy.
- EvanAnderson 5y ago
  "Ren and Stimpy" predates "Beavis and Butthead" by a couple of years (at least the full "Beavis and Butthead" show-- the shorts may well be older). The original "Aeon Flux" shorts on Liquid Television had an aesthetic that was just creepy to me. Definitely a horror aspect.
  - bredren 5y ago
    You’re right, I had this reversed in my head. Both cartoons sparked controversy as I remember it. The aeon flux stuff seemed to portray a dystopia. It seemed like the hero would falter. I don’t remember anything like it in animation.
  - garren 5y ago
    Aeon flux on liquid television was absolutely weird, and that’s what made it so fun to watch. The longer versions that came out later were a huge disappointment. The B&B shorts on Liquid television were the first I’d seen of that show (“fro-o-o-o-g baseba-a-a-all!”).

mlok 5y ago

The show for these experimental animations was called "MTV's oddities" [1] and my favorite one was The Maxx [2]. I've never seen anything better actually. [1] https://youtu.be/JlkzHSDoMpc https://youtu.be/JlkzHSDoMpc [2] https://vimeo.com/40704262 https://vimeo.com/40704262

progmetaldev 5y ago
This was great, along with The Head which was on right before The Maxx. An average Joe wakes up with a giant head, and out pops a weird alien named Roy. Of course everyone says it, but MTV was so much better back then (I was also a huge fan of Headbanger's Ball on Saturday nights).