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Facebook, Apple, Google, Yahoo, Spotify, many major enterprises, presumably many readers of this article. Why do you think it was a fad that died out 10 years

Facebook, Apple, Google, Yahoo, Spotify, many major enterprises, presumably many readers of this article. Why do you think it was a fad that died out 10 years ago?

robjan 5y ago
Scrum and agile are often conflated but are two different things. Agile is more a set of general principles whereas Scrum(tm) is a specific framework
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jedberg 5y ago
> Why do you think it was a fad that died out 10 years ago? Because the last time I heard anyone in my circle of friends (which includes people who work at Facebook, Apple, Google, Yahoo, Spotify, etc) mention scrum was more than a decade ago. I've seen people using some Agile methodologies, but not the Scrum framework.
- greggturkington 5y ago
  Oh, so you're going based on a few anecdotes. Well, not even anecdotes, just a lack of mentions. Its easy to find official blog posts of these companies and other major enterprises describing how they use Scrum, that are much more recent than 10 years ago. I'm shocked you've never heard of the "Spotify Model" which has been compared to Scrum@Scale. Ask your friend!
  - chrisoverzero 5y ago
    The Spotify model is about how people are arranged. It has nothing to do with development methodology or work tracking. From the whitepaper introducing the Spotify model (https://blog.crisp.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SpotifyScaling.pdf https://blog.crisp.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SpotifyScal...): > [Squads] are a self-organizing team and decide their own way of working – some use Scrum sprints, some use Kanban, some use a mix of these approaches.
    - greggturkington 5y ago
      And here's a version that's 8 years more recent [1] > The foundation of the model is the squad and it acts like a Scrum team. The Spotify model resembles Scrum@Scale which is why I mentioned it. Scrum is a development methodology. 1. https://www.pmtoday.co.uk/spotify-scaling-agile-model/ https://www.pmtoday.co.uk/spotify-scaling-agile-model/
      - chrisoverzero 5y ago
        From your article: > Each of the squad has complete freedom to choose their agile methodology. So some squad uses Scrum sprints, some use Kanban and some uses mix of scrum and kanban. Sometimes to release early, squads apply the Most viable product (MVP) technique too. The Spotify model is not related to Scrum. It organizes people. How those people manage their work is not related to how the people are organized. An article explaining the Spotify model in terms of Scrum isn’t a counterexample to that.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      > some use Scrum sprints, some use Kanban, some use a mix of these approaches. Is there only one "The Official" ScrumBan, or can anyone make their own?
  - ekster 5y ago
    It sounds like you are conflating scrum and agile. Lots of companies are still doing agile, few innovative ones (including the ones on this list) are doing scrum. Given that scrum is defined by its very specific rules and quite zealous about “scrum-but” being heresy I don’t think you can count kanban, spotify, or other models as scrum.
    - greggturkington 5y ago
      Nope, talking about Scrum
  - jedberg 5y ago
    Spotify uses agile and some of the teams use Scrum, but not the whole company. Also, I just talked to my friend who is an Eng manager at Apple, and they said almost no one uses Scrum at Apple anymore. Some teams use some of the methodology, but even those teams got rid of their Scrum masters.
    - greggturkington 5y ago
      > Spotify uses agile and some of the teams use Scrum Wait, that contradicts what you just said. Your friend that works there hasn't mentioned Scrum in 10 years! Thanks for confirming that there are teams at Apple using Scrum, like I said. Dev teams at Apple are pretty insular, I'm surprised your friend knows about what every team is doing! Hopefully we can trust them more than your friend who was wrong about Spotify.
- JasonFruit 5y ago
  A set of anecdotes are a perfectly legitimate reason to ask a question, which is what they did, after all.
  - greggturkington 5y ago
    And they may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases. This being a perfect example. Jedberg never heard of Spotify using Scrum "for 10 years" but they'd been using it the whole time, as confirmed by jedberg.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Maybe they've used it so long and are so used to it that they just take it for granted, and that's why they don't mention it any more.
username90 5y ago
I know for sure that Google doesn't do it and I think many of your other examples doesn't either. Some teams at Google might do it, but it isn't the norm and I didn't see any that did. Many teams do daily stand-ups, but that is about it and even stand-ups aren't that common. There are no sprints etc and I don't think I ever saw the word scrum in any message boards there even.
nivertech 5y ago
Spotify Engineering Culture (by Henrik Kniberg)- Part 1 (2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GK1NDTWbkY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GK1NDTWbkY Spotify Engineering Culture (by Henrik Kniberg)- Part 2 (2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzoyryY2STQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzoyryY2STQ

Facebook, Apple, Google, Yahoo, Spotify, many major enterprises, presumably many readers of this article. Why do you think it was a fad that died out 10 years ago?

robjan 5y ago

Scrum and agile are often conflated but are two different things. Agile is more a set of general principles whereas Scrum(tm) is a specific framework

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

jedberg 5y ago

> Why do you think it was a fad that died out 10 years ago? Because the last time I heard anyone in my circle of friends (which includes people who work at Facebook, Apple, Google, Yahoo, Spotify, etc) mention scrum was more than a decade ago. I've seen people using some Agile methodologies, but not the Scrum framework.

greggturkington 5y ago
Oh, so you're going based on a few anecdotes. Well, not even anecdotes, just a lack of mentions. Its easy to find official blog posts of these companies and other major enterprises describing how they use Scrum, that are much more recent than 10 years ago. I'm shocked you've never heard of the "Spotify Model" which has been compared to Scrum@Scale. Ask your friend!
- chrisoverzero 5y ago
  The Spotify model is about how people are arranged. It has nothing to do with development methodology or work tracking. From the whitepaper introducing the Spotify model (https://blog.crisp.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SpotifyScaling.pdf https://blog.crisp.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SpotifyScal...): > [Squads] are a self-organizing team and decide their own way of working – some use Scrum sprints, some use Kanban, some use a mix of these approaches.
  - greggturkington 5y ago
    And here's a version that's 8 years more recent [1] > The foundation of the model is the squad and it acts like a Scrum team. The Spotify model resembles Scrum@Scale which is why I mentioned it. Scrum is a development methodology. 1. https://www.pmtoday.co.uk/spotify-scaling-agile-model/ https://www.pmtoday.co.uk/spotify-scaling-agile-model/
    - chrisoverzero 5y ago
      From your article: > Each of the squad has complete freedom to choose their agile methodology. So some squad uses Scrum sprints, some use Kanban and some uses mix of scrum and kanban. Sometimes to release early, squads apply the Most viable product (MVP) technique too. The Spotify model is not related to Scrum. It organizes people. How those people manage their work is not related to how the people are organized. An article explaining the Spotify model in terms of Scrum isn’t a counterexample to that.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > some use Scrum sprints, some use Kanban, some use a mix of these approaches. Is there only one "The Official" ScrumBan, or can anyone make their own?
- ekster 5y ago
  It sounds like you are conflating scrum and agile. Lots of companies are still doing agile, few innovative ones (including the ones on this list) are doing scrum. Given that scrum is defined by its very specific rules and quite zealous about “scrum-but” being heresy I don’t think you can count kanban, spotify, or other models as scrum.
  - greggturkington 5y ago
    Nope, talking about Scrum
- jedberg 5y ago
  Spotify uses agile and some of the teams use Scrum, but not the whole company. Also, I just talked to my friend who is an Eng manager at Apple, and they said almost no one uses Scrum at Apple anymore. Some teams use some of the methodology, but even those teams got rid of their Scrum masters.
  - greggturkington 5y ago
    > Spotify uses agile and some of the teams use Scrum Wait, that contradicts what you just said. Your friend that works there hasn't mentioned Scrum in 10 years! Thanks for confirming that there are teams at Apple using Scrum, like I said. Dev teams at Apple are pretty insular, I'm surprised your friend knows about what every team is doing! Hopefully we can trust them more than your friend who was wrong about Spotify.
JasonFruit 5y ago
A set of anecdotes are a perfectly legitimate reason to ask a question, which is what they did, after all.
- greggturkington 5y ago
  And they may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases. This being a perfect example. Jedberg never heard of Spotify using Scrum "for 10 years" but they'd been using it the whole time, as confirmed by jedberg.
CRConrad 5y ago
Maybe they've used it so long and are so used to it that they just take it for granted, and that's why they don't mention it any more.

username90 5y ago

I know for sure that Google doesn't do it and I think many of your other examples doesn't either. Some teams at Google might do it, but it isn't the norm and I didn't see any that did. Many teams do daily stand-ups, but that is about it and even stand-ups aren't that common. There are no sprints etc and I don't think I ever saw the word scrum in any message boards there even.

nivertech 5y ago

Spotify Engineering Culture (by Henrik Kniberg)- Part 1 (2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GK1NDTWbkY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GK1NDTWbkY Spotify Engineering Culture (by Henrik Kniberg)- Part 2 (2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzoyryY2STQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzoyryY2STQ