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There definitely are neurodivergent people who think that way, I'm not sure what proportion but I've absolutely seen it IRL in addition to the messaging being r

There definitely are neurodivergent people who think that way, I'm not sure what proportion but I've absolutely seen it IRL in addition to the messaging being rampant online. In some milder cases I can see the argument, but I agree for the most part it gets into dangerous territory - doubling down on bad behavior like you said. It reminds me of how parts of the deaf community will refuse treatments that could improve their ability to hear, as they use strikingly similar arguments to the neurodivergent people that act like they have an advantage. People should be able to make their own choices about medical treatment of course, but I don't think we as a society/culture should be indulging delusions. Not being able to hear is very clearly a bug. With neurodivergence there is such a range of severity it's harder to quantify, but I've seen way too many articles/posts in ASD communities encouraging behavior that clearly shouldn't be encouraged. I think some of this arises from how hard it is to walk the line between accomodations and enabling. Society was so unaccommodating for a long time that I think we are seeing the pendulum swing the other way. It's interesting to talk to therapists that work with children, as it's especially critical to find this balance in that population. It can be a hard thing for the trained professional to determine in some cases, let alone for the parents to handle. Ultimately I think we need to emphasize the fact that everyone has things they could improve on, because that mindset seems to be increasingly lost across the board (see obesity epidemic, "I'm just not a math person", etc.). It's okay to struggle with something but it's an entirely different beast to stop trying because you've decided that society is actually the wrong one and you're perfect the way you are. Doubly so if you proceed to bitch about research on these issues (which others may have much worse!) or impose your beliefs on your children. The latter being a problem in the deaf community, as some treatments work much better at a young age but parents will deny for their children: https://time.com/76154/deaf-culture-cochlear-implants/ https://time.com/76154/deaf-culture-cochlear-implants/ Although it's hard to blame the individuals here too much, because it's compelling to humans for obvious reasons to push the blame off themselves, and when you see 1000s of people online agreeing that you don't have a problem, it's easy to believe that.

deleted 5y ago
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zepto 5y ago
> Not being able to hear is very clearly a bug. It’s not obvious that the software sense of a problematic deviation between design and implementation is a good model. Deafness clearly causes problems for people, that most people would not wish for. However that doesn’t mean an individual deaf person can’t be happier than an individual hearing person with their overall experience of life, and therefore not experience deafness as an impairment. > way too many articles/posts in ASD communities encouraging behavior that clearly shouldn't be encouraged What kind of behaviors are you talking about?
- caddemon 5y ago
  Actively avoiding social interaction even when it is causing the person to stagnate in their career or have family issues. Not needing to apologize for or otherwise address situations where the person said something legitimately mean. Obsessing over something to the point that other basic life functions get ignored. That's a few examples, but the general trend (and this isn't specific to the ASD community, I just read those pages more often) is that any deficit that relates to the disorder can be completely excused even if the person makes no reasonable effort to mitigate. And anything that could possibly be spun as a positive (and in some outlier cases may indeed be a positive) will be excessively praised. This of course doesn't reflect everyone's opinions, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually just a vocal minority. But it's having a broader effect on attitudes inside and outside the community. See also depression pages that push back on things which could legitimately help because none of them are a cure all (e.g. exercise). Edit: to address the hearing loss point you added I was just using an expression. The point is that whether it is good to be deaf is objectively not debatable, nobody (outside of those wrapped up in deaf culture) would want to make themselves deaf. Just because an arbitrary deaf person could be happier than an arbitrary hearing person doesn't mean that the deafness doesn't impair them relative to their own baseline. Ironically, that misconception is something some people with disabilities have had to fight! High IQ individuals with learning disabilities do well enough in school that they are often ignored, despite the fact they could do even better if they were taught how to manage their shortcomings. The comparison has to be made to yourself longitudinally, not to others. When there is no good treatment available there's some argument for the sort of positive attitude you are describing, but it makes no sense when it leads people to avoid help.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

zepto 5y ago

> Not being able to hear is very clearly a bug. It’s not obvious that the software sense of a problematic deviation between design and implementation is a good model. Deafness clearly causes problems for people, that most people would not wish for. However that doesn’t mean an individual deaf person can’t be happier than an individual hearing person with their overall experience of life, and therefore not experience deafness as an impairment. > way too many articles/posts in ASD communities encouraging behavior that clearly shouldn't be encouraged What kind of behaviors are you talking about?

caddemon 5y ago
Actively avoiding social interaction even when it is causing the person to stagnate in their career or have family issues. Not needing to apologize for or otherwise address situations where the person said something legitimately mean. Obsessing over something to the point that other basic life functions get ignored. That's a few examples, but the general trend (and this isn't specific to the ASD community, I just read those pages more often) is that any deficit that relates to the disorder can be completely excused even if the person makes no reasonable effort to mitigate. And anything that could possibly be spun as a positive (and in some outlier cases may indeed be a positive) will be excessively praised. This of course doesn't reflect everyone's opinions, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually just a vocal minority. But it's having a broader effect on attitudes inside and outside the community. See also depression pages that push back on things which could legitimately help because none of them are a cure all (e.g. exercise). Edit: to address the hearing loss point you added I was just using an expression. The point is that whether it is good to be deaf is objectively not debatable, nobody (outside of those wrapped up in deaf culture) would want to make themselves deaf. Just because an arbitrary deaf person could be happier than an arbitrary hearing person doesn't mean that the deafness doesn't impair them relative to their own baseline. Ironically, that misconception is something some people with disabilities have had to fight! High IQ individuals with learning disabilities do well enough in school that they are often ignored, despite the fact they could do even better if they were taught how to manage their shortcomings. The comparison has to be made to yourself longitudinally, not to others. When there is no good treatment available there's some argument for the sort of positive attitude you are describing, but it makes no sense when it leads people to avoid help.