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This quote from the article is counter-productive, > I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that some of these “reports” are from users who shut their MacBook screen o

This quote from the article is counter-productive, > I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that some of these “reports” are from users who shut their MacBook screen onto a keyboard with a bunch of Doritos crumbs stuck in it. > And if you, too, had a Doritos-related MacBook Pro screen incident, it’s worth driving that sucker right to the Apple Store and saying — with a straight face — that it happened for “no apparent reason”. Good luck. Does anyone remember when keyboard failures started to happen for "No Apparent Reason", and everyone said the same thing? Well, it turns out that was a faulty design. One that hadn't been extensively tested in the wild. That could very well be the case here, and further investigation is warranted. The following is speculation, but if Apple has been using a new pre-stressed glass design, then it's well within the realm of possibility for some of the screens to fail spontaneously. It happens frequently enough in the construction industry, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_glass_breakage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_glass_breakage Modern materials are complex and display counter-intuitive failure modes.

attheicearcade 5y ago
Indeed, it's unnecessarily derogatory, especially considering Apple's history of questionable design choices to pursue thinness.
- millzlane 5y ago
  It is apple though? Don't consumers prefer lighter and thinner devices that do what heavier and thicker ones do?
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    It's Apple. iPhones, for example, are unusable and slippery without a case, after which they're as thick as high-end Androids with Kevlar backs that can be used without a case. If my iPhone had good grip surface I wouldn't use a case, and the thinness would actually make a difference in my experience.
    - pb7 5y ago
      That is your opinion. They’re not unusable or slippery for me. I’ve never had a case on any of them, never dropped or cracked one, and get a lot of enjoyment out of the thin and sleek form factor. Your problem can be solved with a case. A thick phone has no solution to make it thinner.
jdavis703 5y ago
If you've ever done hardware tech support you'll find most of the time the user who says they didn't do anything actually did do something. And I encountered this when doing internal support, where the end user didn't even bear cost or blame for breaking equipment.
- foobarian 5y ago
  Right, but if this happens at a rate of X per 1000 customers for a number of years, and then suddenly starts to occur at a rate of 3X per 1000 customers, I think it's fair to look for causes apart from just normal human behavior.
- barrkel 5y ago
  I've kept laptops tightly packed, with a lot of force coming down on the lid, for hours at a time, and I've had no screen cracking. I've had a lot of marks from the keyboard on the screen, but no cracks. In the times before we had a kid, I'd go motorcycle touring in the summer. I'd keep my laptop in a plastic rubble sack (for waterproofing), sitting on top of a wooden cutting board (for rigidity), with my clothes on top in separate bags, all packed into a gym bag. The gym bag would then be strapped to the passenger seat of my motorbike with 100kg luggage straps done up tightly enough to ensure the whole package is rigid with respect to the rest of the bike, with no risk of movement on the road. Without the wooden cutting board, there would be a bending force between the passenger seat and the luggage straps that I'd expect to do damage. I did this mostly with a 2012 MacBook Air. Eventually the plastic hinge between screen and body developed a visible crack, but everything still worked (and still does). It might be that the screen is cracking due to something between screen and keyboard. But it might also be that the M1 design makes cracking more likely.
- bradstewart 5y ago
  This is the worst. Back in my help desk days, was working at a construction company, so we expected a lot of damage and failures from being on jobsites, no big deal. Laptop came in with a non-functional keyboard and some other odd, flaky behaviors. The user was adamant it hadn't gotten wet, dropped, or otherwise damaged. I was young and naive, so I believed him. Started the usual software diagnostics, driver updates, etc. After all of that fails, finally pull the keyboard out to replace it (back when you could do that) and discover.... coffee stains! Which is not to say a screen should crack from a dorito, it absolutely should not.
shantara 5y ago
Indeed. I would suggest replacing the link with https://9to5mac.com/2021/07/30/m1-macbook-screen-cracks/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/07/30/m1-macbook-screen-cracks/ which has much more neutral tone despite being published on an unapologetically fanboyish website.
rory 5y ago
Also-- is the implication that it's not a design flaw if the screen can be cracked by a corn chip crumb?
- uptown 5y ago
  I'm not aware of any screen that can withstand a cheese explosion. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzknRy2XAAA_nD0?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzknRy2XAAA_nD0?format=jpg&name=...
  - rory 5y ago
    I understand now-- Four Cheese may as well be a drillbit.
- ekster 5y ago
  They should simply meditate on how Apple knows best and come to enjoy the feng shui of the crack, reflecting on its dorito crumb nature as a metaphor for the impermanence and fundamental cheesiness of us all. In fact, if anything they should really have to pay more money for the opportunity to receive this enlightenment.
salamandersauce 5y ago
Even if it was a dorito crumb, shouldn't a screen be able to withstand that? Now if was like a marble or ball bearing or a pen or something sure but closing the lid on a CRUMB should not break a screen. People eat near their computers all the time, take them to cafes etc.
- _huayra_ 5y ago
  I mean considering how much abuse thinkpads have stood up to for years, it's kinda embarrassing how much Apple screws things up. I mean I'm glad I hold their stock because they have a brainwashed fanbase that excuses these design flaws (e.g. the "you're holding it wrong" thing with a long-ago iPhone), but dog help me if I had to spend my own cash on one...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
eplanit 5y ago
"users who shut their MacBook screen onto a keyboard with a bunch of Doritos crumbs stuck in it" Wow, they're that fragile? "Modern materials are complex and display counter-intuitive failure modes" == "We're using really cheap materials, and it will surprise you how fragile and breakable they are"
- millzlane 5y ago
  That little plastic slide cover people like to cover the camera with can crack the screen. It's not that they're fragile. But in an effort to make a thin, and light device. The space tolerance between the screen and keyboard is very tight when closed. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211148 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211148 >If your work environment requires a camera cover at all times > >If your work environment requires you to cover the camera on your Mac notebook, follow >these guidelines to avoid damaging the display: > > Make sure the camera cover is not thicker than an average piece of printer paper >(0.1mm). > Avoid using a camera cover that leaves adhesive residue. > If you install a camera cover that is thicker than 0.1mm, remove the camera cover >before closing your computer.
  - eplanit 5y ago
    I understand that it's "precision engineering"; and, that the result is a fragile product (they are not mutually exclusive concepts). https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fragile https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fragile I think you're also describing something that is "easily broken or destroyed". Maybe Apple's superior precision engineering results in a product that is too fragile for their Dorito-eating users. Maybe they could apply that engineering to make devices with better durability.
    - millzlane 5y ago
      Everyone knows you don't eat or drink around a computer. /s But in all seriously, is this regular use? If I'm driving a Lamborghini, and I misshift, grind gears, and break a synchronizer is it my fault or lamborgini's for having crappy gears.
altarius 5y ago
IBM/Lenovo and Apple are the manufacturers I've had the best luck with -- despite the crappy keyboard on my 2015 15-MBP was failing and replaced and issues on my 2019 MBA. They are the only laptops that still feel mechanically good after 3-5 years, no creaky, failed or sloppy hinges, sloppy lids and parts falling off. Actually, my Google Pixelbook is also still decent after all this time. I still have a 13-year old 24" iMac from 2008 that is working fine and used to let kids watch some Netflix, I only jsut retired it because streaming sites dropped support for the OS and browsers. I have a 2010 Macbook Air on its original (but limping) battery that I used to use for serial comms and electronics stuff, still working fine. Besides the failing GPU, my old 2009 and 2011 iMacs run well (and some amazing folks figured out how to replace the MXM which I did, baking also worked). My Samsung, even Microsoft Surface Pros, were pretty creaky and sloppy after about 3 years.
JohnTHaller 5y ago
> Does anyone remember when keyboard failures started to happen for "No Apparent Reason", and everyone said the same thing? Don't forget the screen failures (stagelight) for 'no apparent reason' as well due to the absurd decision to permanently attach a too-short cable to the LCD panel, which also made a $5 repair a $500 repair.
vmchale 5y ago
> I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that some of these “reports” are from users who shut their MacBook screen onto a keyboard with a bunch of Doritos crumbs stuck in it. imagine your Apple screen breaks and then some tech journalist calls you fat and gross for no reason ??

attheicearcade 5y ago

Indeed, it's unnecessarily derogatory, especially considering Apple's history of questionable design choices to pursue thinness.

millzlane 5y ago
It is apple though? Don't consumers prefer lighter and thinner devices that do what heavier and thicker ones do?
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  It's Apple. iPhones, for example, are unusable and slippery without a case, after which they're as thick as high-end Androids with Kevlar backs that can be used without a case. If my iPhone had good grip surface I wouldn't use a case, and the thinness would actually make a difference in my experience.
  - pb7 5y ago
    That is your opinion. They’re not unusable or slippery for me. I’ve never had a case on any of them, never dropped or cracked one, and get a lot of enjoyment out of the thin and sleek form factor. Your problem can be solved with a case. A thick phone has no solution to make it thinner.

jdavis703 5y ago

If you've ever done hardware tech support you'll find most of the time the user who says they didn't do anything actually did do something. And I encountered this when doing internal support, where the end user didn't even bear cost or blame for breaking equipment.

foobarian 5y ago
Right, but if this happens at a rate of X per 1000 customers for a number of years, and then suddenly starts to occur at a rate of 3X per 1000 customers, I think it's fair to look for causes apart from just normal human behavior.
barrkel 5y ago
I've kept laptops tightly packed, with a lot of force coming down on the lid, for hours at a time, and I've had no screen cracking. I've had a lot of marks from the keyboard on the screen, but no cracks. In the times before we had a kid, I'd go motorcycle touring in the summer. I'd keep my laptop in a plastic rubble sack (for waterproofing), sitting on top of a wooden cutting board (for rigidity), with my clothes on top in separate bags, all packed into a gym bag. The gym bag would then be strapped to the passenger seat of my motorbike with 100kg luggage straps done up tightly enough to ensure the whole package is rigid with respect to the rest of the bike, with no risk of movement on the road. Without the wooden cutting board, there would be a bending force between the passenger seat and the luggage straps that I'd expect to do damage. I did this mostly with a 2012 MacBook Air. Eventually the plastic hinge between screen and body developed a visible crack, but everything still worked (and still does). It might be that the screen is cracking due to something between screen and keyboard. But it might also be that the M1 design makes cracking more likely.
bradstewart 5y ago
This is the worst. Back in my help desk days, was working at a construction company, so we expected a lot of damage and failures from being on jobsites, no big deal. Laptop came in with a non-functional keyboard and some other odd, flaky behaviors. The user was adamant it hadn't gotten wet, dropped, or otherwise damaged. I was young and naive, so I believed him. Started the usual software diagnostics, driver updates, etc. After all of that fails, finally pull the keyboard out to replace it (back when you could do that) and discover.... coffee stains! Which is not to say a screen should crack from a dorito, it absolutely should not.

shantara 5y ago

Indeed. I would suggest replacing the link with https://9to5mac.com/2021/07/30/m1-macbook-screen-cracks/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/07/30/m1-macbook-screen-cracks/ which has much more neutral tone despite being published on an unapologetically fanboyish website.

rory 5y ago

Also-- is the implication that it's not a design flaw if the screen can be cracked by a corn chip crumb?

uptown 5y ago
I'm not aware of any screen that can withstand a cheese explosion. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzknRy2XAAA_nD0?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzknRy2XAAA_nD0?format=jpg&name=...
- rory 5y ago
  I understand now-- Four Cheese may as well be a drillbit.
ekster 5y ago
They should simply meditate on how Apple knows best and come to enjoy the feng shui of the crack, reflecting on its dorito crumb nature as a metaphor for the impermanence and fundamental cheesiness of us all. In fact, if anything they should really have to pay more money for the opportunity to receive this enlightenment.

salamandersauce 5y ago

Even if it was a dorito crumb, shouldn't a screen be able to withstand that? Now if was like a marble or ball bearing or a pen or something sure but closing the lid on a CRUMB should not break a screen. People eat near their computers all the time, take them to cafes etc.

_huayra_ 5y ago
I mean considering how much abuse thinkpads have stood up to for years, it's kinda embarrassing how much Apple screws things up. I mean I'm glad I hold their stock because they have a brainwashed fanbase that excuses these design flaws (e.g. the "you're holding it wrong" thing with a long-ago iPhone), but dog help me if I had to spend my own cash on one...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

eplanit 5y ago

"users who shut their MacBook screen onto a keyboard with a bunch of Doritos crumbs stuck in it" Wow, they're that fragile? "Modern materials are complex and display counter-intuitive failure modes" == "We're using really cheap materials, and it will surprise you how fragile and breakable they are"

millzlane 5y ago
That little plastic slide cover people like to cover the camera with can crack the screen. It's not that they're fragile. But in an effort to make a thin, and light device. The space tolerance between the screen and keyboard is very tight when closed. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211148 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211148 >If your work environment requires a camera cover at all times > >If your work environment requires you to cover the camera on your Mac notebook, follow >these guidelines to avoid damaging the display: > > Make sure the camera cover is not thicker than an average piece of printer paper >(0.1mm). > Avoid using a camera cover that leaves adhesive residue. > If you install a camera cover that is thicker than 0.1mm, remove the camera cover >before closing your computer.
- eplanit 5y ago
  I understand that it's "precision engineering"; and, that the result is a fragile product (they are not mutually exclusive concepts). https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fragile https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fragile I think you're also describing something that is "easily broken or destroyed". Maybe Apple's superior precision engineering results in a product that is too fragile for their Dorito-eating users. Maybe they could apply that engineering to make devices with better durability.
  - millzlane 5y ago
    Everyone knows you don't eat or drink around a computer. /s But in all seriously, is this regular use? If I'm driving a Lamborghini, and I misshift, grind gears, and break a synchronizer is it my fault or lamborgini's for having crappy gears.

altarius 5y ago

IBM/Lenovo and Apple are the manufacturers I've had the best luck with -- despite the crappy keyboard on my 2015 15-MBP was failing and replaced and issues on my 2019 MBA. They are the only laptops that still feel mechanically good after 3-5 years, no creaky, failed or sloppy hinges, sloppy lids and parts falling off. Actually, my Google Pixelbook is also still decent after all this time. I still have a 13-year old 24" iMac from 2008 that is working fine and used to let kids watch some Netflix, I only jsut retired it because streaming sites dropped support for the OS and browsers. I have a 2010 Macbook Air on its original (but limping) battery that I used to use for serial comms and electronics stuff, still working fine. Besides the failing GPU, my old 2009 and 2011 iMacs run well (and some amazing folks figured out how to replace the MXM which I did, baking also worked). My Samsung, even Microsoft Surface Pros, were pretty creaky and sloppy after about 3 years.

JohnTHaller 5y ago

> Does anyone remember when keyboard failures started to happen for "No Apparent Reason", and everyone said the same thing? Don't forget the screen failures (stagelight) for 'no apparent reason' as well due to the absurd decision to permanently attach a too-short cable to the LCD panel, which also made a $5 repair a $500 repair.

vmchale 5y ago

> I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that some of these “reports” are from users who shut their MacBook screen onto a keyboard with a bunch of Doritos crumbs stuck in it. imagine your Apple screen breaks and then some tech journalist calls you fat and gross for no reason ??