3 ms·

And which Artikel of the Grundgesetz would that be? Are you referring to Art. 9(2)?

by adwn 5y ago

guerrilla 5y ago
Incitement of the People (Volksverhetzung) is defined by § 130 (Incitement to hatred) Section 1 of the Criminal Code. [1] 1. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__130.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__130.html
- est31 5y ago
  That's not the constitution but the penal code.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    Yes, it is, which is why I called it that and not the constitution.
    - est31 5y ago
      The claim was though that the constitution contains rules to ban political speech. Even if you see Volksverhetzung as political speech (just because it's uttered by politicians doesn't make it political), the rule banning it is not part of the constitution.
      - guerrilla 5y ago
        That's why I didn't claim it was. I was just providing information on where what the person was probably thinking of actually was.
hansel_der 5y ago
Art 21 (2) bans 'political organisations that work towards a disruption or removal of the liberal democratic order'. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_21.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_21.html
- adwn 5y ago
  True, but that article only refers to political parties. It says nothing about personal opinions published on some website (unless you're a representative of a political organisation, then it's a different matter).
  - hnbad 5y ago
    It's also almost never applied in practice. There are several openly far-right political parties and there have been two unsuccessful attempts to ban the party with the most well-known ties to neo-nazi movements, the NPD: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPD-Verbotsverfahren https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPD-Verbotsverfahren Note that this is a disambiguation page because there were two years long processes, neither of which resulted in a ban even though the more recent one did at least rule the party anti-constitutional, which resulted in laws being passed to exempt anti-constitutional parties from public party financing and the forced neutrality of public institutions in their statements regarding political parties. Still not a ban. I think the more relevant examples are: * Germany's strict laws surrounding "insults", which mean that you can incur a €600 fine for intentionally addressing a police officer using the colloquial form ("du" instead of the more formal "Sie") * the ban on "anti-constitutional" symbols, especially the swastika, various insignia, flags, songs and salutes associated with nazi movements (but also symbols associated with designated terrorist groups like ISIS), when used in a context that can be understood to express approval of the associated ideologies * the denial of the Holocaust But note that in practice these are punishable by law, not strictly prohibited/enforced by the constitution.
    - realityking 5y ago
      > Germany's strict laws surrounding "insults", which mean that you can incur a €600 fine for intentionally addressing a police officer using the colloquial form ("du" instead of the more formal "Sie") Do you have a reference on the "du" as insult ever being successfully prosecuted? I can't find anything.
      - hnbad 5y ago

And which Artikel of the Grundgesetz would that be? Are you referring to Art. 9(2)?

by adwn 5y ago

And which Artikel of the Grundgesetz would that be? Are you referring to Art. 9(2)?

Incitement of the People (Volksverhetzung) is defined by § 130 (Incitement to hatred) Section 1 of the Criminal Code. [1] 1. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__130.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__130.html

est31 5y ago
That's not the constitution but the penal code.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  Yes, it is, which is why I called it that and not the constitution.
  - est31 5y ago
    The claim was though that the constitution contains rules to ban political speech. Even if you see Volksverhetzung as political speech (just because it's uttered by politicians doesn't make it political), the rule banning it is not part of the constitution.
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      That's why I didn't claim it was. I was just providing information on where what the person was probably thinking of actually was.

hansel_der 5y ago

Art 21 (2) bans 'political organisations that work towards a disruption or removal of the liberal democratic order'. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_21.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_21.html

adwn 5y ago
True, but that article only refers to political parties. It says nothing about personal opinions published on some website (unless you're a representative of a political organisation, then it's a different matter).
- hnbad 5y ago
  It's also almost never applied in practice. There are several openly far-right political parties and there have been two unsuccessful attempts to ban the party with the most well-known ties to neo-nazi movements, the NPD: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPD-Verbotsverfahren https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPD-Verbotsverfahren Note that this is a disambiguation page because there were two years long processes, neither of which resulted in a ban even though the more recent one did at least rule the party anti-constitutional, which resulted in laws being passed to exempt anti-constitutional parties from public party financing and the forced neutrality of public institutions in their statements regarding political parties. Still not a ban. I think the more relevant examples are: * Germany's strict laws surrounding "insults", which mean that you can incur a €600 fine for intentionally addressing a police officer using the colloquial form ("du" instead of the more formal "Sie") * the ban on "anti-constitutional" symbols, especially the swastika, various insignia, flags, songs and salutes associated with nazi movements (but also symbols associated with designated terrorist groups like ISIS), when used in a context that can be understood to express approval of the associated ideologies * the denial of the Holocaust But note that in practice these are punishable by law, not strictly prohibited/enforced by the constitution.
  - realityking 5y ago
    > Germany's strict laws surrounding "insults", which mean that you can incur a €600 fine for intentionally addressing a police officer using the colloquial form ("du" instead of the more formal "Sie") Do you have a reference on the "du" as insult ever being successfully prosecuted? I can't find anything.
    - hnbad 5y ago