4 ms·

To expand further on your point, this phenomenon can be seen beyond politics too, in media and culture. Consider the following photos[1][2] of Cambridge Footlig

To expand further on your point, this phenomenon can be seen beyond politics too, in media and culture. Consider the following photos[1][2] of Cambridge Footlights former members. Being a member of this theatrical club, attached to an elite university, has the capability of plugging you into a network of movers shakers who can propel you to the best TV careers going. If you didn't quite make it into Cambridge, tough luck. [1] https://www.facebook.com/14554658690/photos/a.10150355587333691/10156078217953691/?type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/14554658690/photos/a.10150355587333... [2] https://old.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1zdaa7/david_mitchell_richard_ayoade_and_john_oliver_at/ https://old.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1zdaa7/david_mitchell... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footlights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footlights

Veen 5y ago
This, in fact, rather undermines the point. None of these people are traditional elites. David Mitchell's parents are middle-class hotel managers. John Oliver's parents are teachers. Richard Ayodade's parents are Nigerian and Norwegian immigrants. Ben Elton (in spite of the impression he strives to convey) does come from an upper middle-class background, as do Hugh Laurie and Steven Fry. But none of them are anything like aristocracy or the types that would be considered for Bullingdon membership.
- ttctciyf 5y ago
  > undermines the point I think it slides right past the point without noticing it, for the reason you state. None of these people are running the UK.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
  Except for Oliver, everyone on your list went to public school. The fact that they're not upper-upper doesn't change the fact that a public school education is a fast track to Oxbridge and to insider status. But even with the fast track, the upper middle classes are motivated by anxiety and envy about not being upper upper enough. The original article almost highlights this, but doesn't quite hammer it home. The class system is about aspiring to become the kind of person who has ancestral money and some huge houses. (Not just one huge house. That's the entry level.) But the people with the ancestral money and huge houses are neither special nor interesting. They're groomed for confident self-interest and social polish, but they don't actually do much except cream money off the markets, order inferiors around, and breed. Their self interest sets the tone for those lower down the tree who aspire to be like them. That's why they're so toxic. They're hostile to any kind of collectivity which erodes their "natural" privilege. And they'd rather own a country which is falling apart than lose some status in a country with more social mobility which might challenge their self-perceived high status.
  - ttctciyf 5y ago
    > everyone on your list went to public school. *Note for non-Brits: "public school" is the British way of saying "private school"[1] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom)
    - carnitine 5y ago
      Public schools are a type of private school in the UK, it’s not a direct mapping.
      - ttctciyf 5y ago
        But a lot closer to what most non-British people would understand by "private school" than what they would by "public school" The Wikipedia link I provided has the details.
  - scatters 5y ago
    Since 2000, the proportion of Oxbridge entrants who attended state schools has been consistently over 50% and is steadily approaching two thirds. The public school track really isn't the advantage some (including the schools themselves) make it out to be; it's a well-known trope among the middle classes that a merely diligent straight-As student will have a much better chance applying from a state school than from a public school.
    - exdsq 5y ago
      Most public schools will have Oxbridge Advisors who coach their sixth form students how to prepare and succeed in the interviews which is a huge hand up. Remember that way more than half of students don't go to public school so even if it's increasing its still a huge step up.
    - TheCoelacanth 5y ago
      Independent schools are only 7% of students in England[1] (even lower for the whole UK) and public schools would be a tiny fraction of that 7%. They are still greatly over-represented at Oxbridge, even if not quite to the extent that they used to be. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_school_(United_Kingdom)#The_present_day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_school_(United_Kin...

Veen 5y ago

This, in fact, rather undermines the point. None of these people are traditional elites. David Mitchell's parents are middle-class hotel managers. John Oliver's parents are teachers. Richard Ayodade's parents are Nigerian and Norwegian immigrants. Ben Elton (in spite of the impression he strives to convey) does come from an upper middle-class background, as do Hugh Laurie and Steven Fry. But none of them are anything like aristocracy or the types that would be considered for Bullingdon membership.

ttctciyf 5y ago
> undermines the point I think it slides right past the point without noticing it, for the reason you state. None of these people are running the UK.
TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
Except for Oliver, everyone on your list went to public school. The fact that they're not upper-upper doesn't change the fact that a public school education is a fast track to Oxbridge and to insider status. But even with the fast track, the upper middle classes are motivated by anxiety and envy about not being upper upper enough. The original article almost highlights this, but doesn't quite hammer it home. The class system is about aspiring to become the kind of person who has ancestral money and some huge houses. (Not just one huge house. That's the entry level.) But the people with the ancestral money and huge houses are neither special nor interesting. They're groomed for confident self-interest and social polish, but they don't actually do much except cream money off the markets, order inferiors around, and breed. Their self interest sets the tone for those lower down the tree who aspire to be like them. That's why they're so toxic. They're hostile to any kind of collectivity which erodes their "natural" privilege. And they'd rather own a country which is falling apart than lose some status in a country with more social mobility which might challenge their self-perceived high status.
- ttctciyf 5y ago
  > everyone on your list went to public school. *Note for non-Brits: "public school" is the British way of saying "private school"[1] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom)
  - carnitine 5y ago
    Public schools are a type of private school in the UK, it’s not a direct mapping.
    - ttctciyf 5y ago
      But a lot closer to what most non-British people would understand by "private school" than what they would by "public school" The Wikipedia link I provided has the details.
- scatters 5y ago
  Since 2000, the proportion of Oxbridge entrants who attended state schools has been consistently over 50% and is steadily approaching two thirds. The public school track really isn't the advantage some (including the schools themselves) make it out to be; it's a well-known trope among the middle classes that a merely diligent straight-As student will have a much better chance applying from a state school than from a public school.
  - exdsq 5y ago
    Most public schools will have Oxbridge Advisors who coach their sixth form students how to prepare and succeed in the interviews which is a huge hand up. Remember that way more than half of students don't go to public school so even if it's increasing its still a huge step up.
  - TheCoelacanth 5y ago
    Independent schools are only 7% of students in England[1] (even lower for the whole UK) and public schools would be a tiny fraction of that 7%. They are still greatly over-represented at Oxbridge, even if not quite to the extent that they used to be. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_school_(United_Kingdom)#The_present_day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_school_(United_Kin...