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It's not really about saving money. It's about keeping homeless and very poor people out of it. It's the same kind of thing as park benches being designed to

It's not really about saving money. It's about keeping homeless and very poor people out of it. It's the same kind of thing as park benches being designed to be unusable for sleeping on, empty unused rain areas below bridges being walled of or filled with spikes or vegetation in parks being removed and replaced with grass and similar to make it less pleasant to stay there over night. I fear if they could they would use a combination of image recognition to ban people which look homeless from entering their shop at all. Just to be clear this things are/would be normally mandated from the top, so the people operating the specific restaurants might not have any say in it.

mypastself 5y ago
Why would the business be interested in keeping the homeless out, if it has no impact on the bottom line? What’s in it for them?
- retrac 5y ago
  Those above the homeless in social status go out of their way to keep them out of sight. If your store becomes a de facto gathering place you will have few customers.
  - mypastself 5y ago
    Which is my point. They are doing what’s best for their bottom line, not engaging in some nebulous form of class warfare.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - jjj123 5y ago
      Yeah I think most understood the parent comment’s “it’s not about money” to mean “it’s not about money lost on illegal refills.” We hear your point that it could have been a bit clearer, but you’re agreeing with the OP.
      - mypastself 5y ago
        I disagree with their implication that the business is engaging in systemic acts of discrimination.
- dathinab 5y ago
  It's a different bottom line, i.e. it's not about losing money due to free refiles but losing (or being afraid of losing) money due to people leaving due to the presence of homeless people. A decision because of the first point (free refiles) is not moralistically questionable. A decision on the second point can be seen as moralically questionable due to discrimination against people which already are in a pretty bad situation.
  - mypastself 5y ago
    So it is indeed about the money, then. It’s just a question of whether or not you consider a business catering to patrons who avoid establishments populated by homeless people to be morally questionable.
  - oceanghost 5y ago
    You're right, but I don't think that's the full picture. I once was working on a book that featured several homeless characters, I spent a lot of time talking to and hanging out with the homeless as research (think early 2000s). Things are different now. I don't have any numbers for you, but the meth epidemic has left us with a whole traunch of society that has permanent brain damage if not permanent psychosis. I honestly don't know what we are going to do with these people, or how we are going to care for them. I live in So Cal in a city with a large homeless population. I cannot take my daughter to McDonald's-- it's just not safe. I personally have had homeless folks try to open my car doors at stop lights and in drive throughs. I've seen numerous fights break out. People standing on the street screaming at something. Aggressive and threatening begging-- including one guy who parked his wheelchair behind my car (I've seen him walking, it was a prop) and wouldn't move until I gave him $20 (I didn't). I have every sympathy for the homeless. But the fact is my local McDonald's is probably missing out on a visit from my family a week not because its not safe.
moritonal 5y ago
In case you didn't know, the phrase for that style of design is "hostile architecture".
fmajid 5y ago
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. — Anatole France.
drcongo 5y ago
In my teenage years when McDonalds used to do those Monopoly scratch cards (UK), we used to go into the local McDonalds, order the cheapest hamburger on the menu, rob a whole bunch of scratch cards and then hand out the winning ones to local homeless people. Good times.

mypastself 5y ago

Why would the business be interested in keeping the homeless out, if it has no impact on the bottom line? What’s in it for them?

retrac 5y ago
Those above the homeless in social status go out of their way to keep them out of sight. If your store becomes a de facto gathering place you will have few customers.
- mypastself 5y ago
  Which is my point. They are doing what’s best for their bottom line, not engaging in some nebulous form of class warfare.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jjj123 5y ago
    Yeah I think most understood the parent comment’s “it’s not about money” to mean “it’s not about money lost on illegal refills.” We hear your point that it could have been a bit clearer, but you’re agreeing with the OP.
    - mypastself 5y ago
      I disagree with their implication that the business is engaging in systemic acts of discrimination.
dathinab 5y ago
It's a different bottom line, i.e. it's not about losing money due to free refiles but losing (or being afraid of losing) money due to people leaving due to the presence of homeless people. A decision because of the first point (free refiles) is not moralistically questionable. A decision on the second point can be seen as moralically questionable due to discrimination against people which already are in a pretty bad situation.
- mypastself 5y ago
  So it is indeed about the money, then. It’s just a question of whether or not you consider a business catering to patrons who avoid establishments populated by homeless people to be morally questionable.
- oceanghost 5y ago
  You're right, but I don't think that's the full picture. I once was working on a book that featured several homeless characters, I spent a lot of time talking to and hanging out with the homeless as research (think early 2000s). Things are different now. I don't have any numbers for you, but the meth epidemic has left us with a whole traunch of society that has permanent brain damage if not permanent psychosis. I honestly don't know what we are going to do with these people, or how we are going to care for them. I live in So Cal in a city with a large homeless population. I cannot take my daughter to McDonald's-- it's just not safe. I personally have had homeless folks try to open my car doors at stop lights and in drive throughs. I've seen numerous fights break out. People standing on the street screaming at something. Aggressive and threatening begging-- including one guy who parked his wheelchair behind my car (I've seen him walking, it was a prop) and wouldn't move until I gave him $20 (I didn't). I have every sympathy for the homeless. But the fact is my local McDonald's is probably missing out on a visit from my family a week not because its not safe.

moritonal 5y ago

In case you didn't know, the phrase for that style of design is "hostile architecture".

fmajid 5y ago

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. — Anatole France.

drcongo 5y ago

In my teenage years when McDonalds used to do those Monopoly scratch cards (UK), we used to go into the local McDonalds, order the cheapest hamburger on the menu, rob a whole bunch of scratch cards and then hand out the winning ones to local homeless people. Good times.