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You may be right for that class of visa, but there are many others: https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/options/live-permanently/all-resident-visa

You may be right for that class of visa, but there are many others: https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/options/live-permanently/all-resident-visas https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/options/li.... And yes, the prices can be driven up by cheap loans, but from memory they were already rising steadily before the covid stimulus measures. I am still unconvinced that there exists in NZ a mechanism that can generate so much money and drive up the prices to these levels. Haven't been back for a while but family and friends back there are just as bewildered as I am with these price rises.

Mandatum 5y ago
I think what you're seeing is everyone previously investing in stocks, business, etc. are now going all-in on property. Mum and Dad are pulling their supers and investments and gifting it to their kids for their first home. It is entirely unsustainable. But we've been saying this for 15 years now.
- archibaldJ 5y ago
  Intersting. In where I live (Singapore), it's very common for young married people to get a loan/etc from their parents to cover the down payment (~25%) for a 20-30 year mortgage. Also, rent here is so expensive that most Singaporeans still stay with their parents even in their late 20s~30s. (Most people renting a room or apartment are none-Singaporeans (30% of the population).) So buying a house makes perfect economical sense if you are married and can somehow cover the down payment. I wonder if this is becoming a trend across all first-world countries, as the world gets less predictable and people get more risk-adverse. Esp when rents are driven up by none-citizens so it becomes economical to buy instead of rent.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Singapore incentivizes home ownership through HBDs to such an extent people think you’re nuts if you don’t buy one. Heavily subsidized units (think $500k for something that would sell privately for $800k-$1M). Constrained supply so prices keep climbing (quite intentional by the govt). 5 year MOP means you can rent it out for a 3-5% yield then buy a private condo. Housing is basically a govt supported investment program in Singapore. Not that different than most Western countries, just different mechanism.
    - archibaldJ 5y ago
      I was talking mostly about none-HDB properties like condominiums and landed though. (The cheapest starts at ~$700k.) HDB certainly helps to lower the barrier to entry in home ownership. But I don't think most forms of HDB purchases are investment-orientated. ROI for second-hand HDB is not high and buying a good first-hand one is like winning a lucky draw. I would say HDB is more of the gov's mean to stabilize the housing market and it functions as more like the backbone of the economy. (Or you end up with runaway prices like in Hong Kong.)
      - refurb 5y ago
        Returns on HDBs, especially with “cash over valuation” offer bigger returns than private properties. Rent it out and the ROI is better than private as well. HDBs are similar to property in most countries. It’s bought primary as a place to live but also as a store of value. The govt will buy out your HDB for cash in order to fund your CPF. The govt also constrains the supply of HDBs which pushes up values. But you are right about the lucky draw. Someone people win BTO lottery and make out like bandits with new developments in mature estates.
- mistrial9 5y ago
  huh? both Mom and Dad - you lost a great number of people right there.. pulling their supers? over-65 wealth is that common? and this one, really interesting.. "gifting" .. what is that ? I see tooth-and-nail fights over any piece of money in sight among otherwise ordinary relatives.. Mostly Los Angeles SoCal but everywhere in California really.. "gifting" ?!?
  - panzagl 5y ago
    Really? Because in places like Colorado and Montana the Californians who sold their parents' house to move there and start their 'lifestyle business' is so old it's beyond a cliché. Maybe substitute 'inherit' for 'gifted'?
    - Kye 5y ago
      Just because something happens often enough to become cliché doesn't mean it's common, representative, or sufficient to move markets. And I've never heard of this, so it might be a noisy but localized thing.
  - anonAndOn 5y ago
    Well, according to the loan docs it's a "gift" but to everyone else it's an interest free loan from mom & dad until they sell the place. It's quite common in California, and everywhere else I've lived in the US.
simonh 5y ago
It doesn't take much money at all to drive property markets sky high. All it takes is a tight property market, restricted new supply and a few well capitalised investors. Say a town has 1,000 houses worth $200k each. The housing stock is worth $200m. If 10 houses sell for $220k, those 10 buyers spent an extra $200k split between them, but the notional value of the housing stock went up by $20m. There doesn’t actually have to be an extra $20m in the economy if the town. It only takes a few people with money to invest to drive house prices sky high.
- chimichangga 5y ago
  coughhedge funds

Mandatum 5y ago

I think what you're seeing is everyone previously investing in stocks, business, etc. are now going all-in on property. Mum and Dad are pulling their supers and investments and gifting it to their kids for their first home. It is entirely unsustainable. But we've been saying this for 15 years now.

archibaldJ 5y ago
Intersting. In where I live (Singapore), it's very common for young married people to get a loan/etc from their parents to cover the down payment (~25%) for a 20-30 year mortgage. Also, rent here is so expensive that most Singaporeans still stay with their parents even in their late 20s~30s. (Most people renting a room or apartment are none-Singaporeans (30% of the population).) So buying a house makes perfect economical sense if you are married and can somehow cover the down payment. I wonder if this is becoming a trend across all first-world countries, as the world gets less predictable and people get more risk-adverse. Esp when rents are driven up by none-citizens so it becomes economical to buy instead of rent.
- refurb 5y ago
  Singapore incentivizes home ownership through HBDs to such an extent people think you’re nuts if you don’t buy one. Heavily subsidized units (think $500k for something that would sell privately for $800k-$1M). Constrained supply so prices keep climbing (quite intentional by the govt). 5 year MOP means you can rent it out for a 3-5% yield then buy a private condo. Housing is basically a govt supported investment program in Singapore. Not that different than most Western countries, just different mechanism.
  - archibaldJ 5y ago
    I was talking mostly about none-HDB properties like condominiums and landed though. (The cheapest starts at ~$700k.) HDB certainly helps to lower the barrier to entry in home ownership. But I don't think most forms of HDB purchases are investment-orientated. ROI for second-hand HDB is not high and buying a good first-hand one is like winning a lucky draw. I would say HDB is more of the gov's mean to stabilize the housing market and it functions as more like the backbone of the economy. (Or you end up with runaway prices like in Hong Kong.)
    - refurb 5y ago
      Returns on HDBs, especially with “cash over valuation” offer bigger returns than private properties. Rent it out and the ROI is better than private as well. HDBs are similar to property in most countries. It’s bought primary as a place to live but also as a store of value. The govt will buy out your HDB for cash in order to fund your CPF. The govt also constrains the supply of HDBs which pushes up values. But you are right about the lucky draw. Someone people win BTO lottery and make out like bandits with new developments in mature estates.
mistrial9 5y ago
huh? both Mom and Dad - you lost a great number of people right there.. pulling their supers? over-65 wealth is that common? and this one, really interesting.. "gifting" .. what is that ? I see tooth-and-nail fights over any piece of money in sight among otherwise ordinary relatives.. Mostly Los Angeles SoCal but everywhere in California really.. "gifting" ?!?
- panzagl 5y ago
  Really? Because in places like Colorado and Montana the Californians who sold their parents' house to move there and start their 'lifestyle business' is so old it's beyond a cliché. Maybe substitute 'inherit' for 'gifted'?
  - Kye 5y ago
    Just because something happens often enough to become cliché doesn't mean it's common, representative, or sufficient to move markets. And I've never heard of this, so it might be a noisy but localized thing.
- anonAndOn 5y ago
  Well, according to the loan docs it's a "gift" but to everyone else it's an interest free loan from mom & dad until they sell the place. It's quite common in California, and everywhere else I've lived in the US.

simonh 5y ago

It doesn't take much money at all to drive property markets sky high. All it takes is a tight property market, restricted new supply and a few well capitalised investors. Say a town has 1,000 houses worth $200k each. The housing stock is worth $200m. If 10 houses sell for $220k, those 10 buyers spent an extra $200k split between them, but the notional value of the housing stock went up by $20m. There doesn’t actually have to be an extra $20m in the economy if the town. It only takes a few people with money to invest to drive house prices sky high.

chimichangga 5y ago
coughhedge funds