4 ms·

Of course, its how the "Buggers" communicate between themselves! I'm surprised nobodies brought up the Ansible from Orson Scott Card's books yet. Its the first

Of course, its how the "Buggers" communicate between themselves! I'm surprised nobodies brought up the Ansible from Orson Scott Card's books yet. Its the first thing that comes to mind everytime I hear about quantum entanglement. The first time I came across the concept in Ender's Game I thought it was purely science fiction but a pretty neat idea. The fact that something similar can actually be achieved has always been mind-blowing for me, it's like I'm gradually living out science fiction. A bit off topic but Ender's Game was such a good book, especially reading it in high-school, it just introduced so many new concepts

giantrobot 5y ago
The Ansible in Card's books is purely science fiction. The Ansible's allowed faster-than-light two-way communication. Quantum entanglement does not.
- czbond 5y ago
  It is late - but while watching an episode of spacetime+ the host stated an entangled pair could be millions of miles apart and one could immediately cause a change in the other. This would be faster than light
  - ackbar03 5y ago
    As an arm-chair quantum physicist, I found this article helpful https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2016/05/04/the-real-reasons-quantum-entanglement-doesnt-allow-faster-than-light-communication/?sh=1826d6ee3a1e https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2016/05/04/the-real-r... If the entangled pair is measured precisely at the same time, both parties get the same value instantly. However this fact itself does not allow for actual communication/information passing. For that there needs to be a way to actually control the state. Or something like that Lol
    - dfasdf1231 5y ago
      Lets say I'm in NY, now I go to ask to join a cooking course, they say me: "we will let you know if you're accepted or not". Then I take a plane to the other side of the planet, Japan. We have some pending information, a link between the cooking course acceptation and me. The link will keep existing even if I take a trip to Mars. Then I got accepted in the cooking course, the information about the acceptance changes instantaneously in the whole universe, including in my head (currently in Japan, thousands of miles away from the place when the cooking course decision to accept me occurs). Is this quantum entanglement somehow? It seems to check all the boxes, including that the information changes instantaneously in both sides (I got accepted! even if now I'm in Japan), but I wouldn't know about it till they send me the news using a standard non-quantum channel. FTL comms aren't possible at all here, etc. Then I ask, entanglement occurs continously at levels in universe, when two entities somehow get to share a question, a pending information? Of course I think I'm missing something (a degree or PhD in physics for starters), that's why I'm asking. Thanks in advance.
  - roywiggins 5y ago
    It doesn't work like that: you can only measure the state, not set it. Measuring the state does change something (it collapses the wave function, in the Copenhagen interpetation) but not in a way that's measurable by the person at the other end. You can't tell if the wave function collapsed just by measuring one of the entangled particles. There's a theorem in QM the guarantees that you can't use measurements on entangled systems to communicate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem
    - ackbar03 5y ago
      Since you clearly know more than me what your talking about, is it correct to interpret the significance of china's quantum satellite communication as one of quantum cryptography (based on states changing post measurement) rather than potential high speed communication?
      - roywiggins 5y ago
        There's quantum superdense coding, which in theory could allow higher bandwidth (transmitting one qbit can be used to transmit two classical bits) but I believe the main point of quantum channels is for cryptography. If entanglement allowed FTL communication you'd see high-frequency traders already using it!
  - giantrobot 5y ago
    That's an incorrect explanation. I find the envelope analogy to be the clearest. I have two cards, a red card and a blue card. I have only one of each. I put each into a totally opaque envelope. I have created an entangled pair. I give you an envelope and you pay SpaceX a few million dollars for a trip to Mars. You have an equal probability of having a red or blue card in your envelope. Once you settle in on Mars and recover a bit from bone and muscle density loss from six months in zero-g you open your envelope. You have the red card. You've just measured the state of the entangled pair. You instantly know I have the blue card but your measurement didn't cause some FTL communication. Because our entangled pair had exclusive states you gain some instant knowledge of my envelope contents. While that's a cool effect it still required classical slower-than-light transmission of the envelope. I also have no knowledge that you opened your envelope until I receive your classical communication saying so. Even if you were just across the room the information about the color of your card would still only travel at the speed of light. Even though you could instantly know the state of my card once you know yours you can only communicate that knowledge to me at the speed of light.
    - czbond 5y ago
      That is a clear explanation - thank you. And I probably misunderstood the exact Spacetime semantics of the situation. Thank you
munchler 5y ago
Ursula K. Le Guin coined the word "ansible" in 1966. Others have used it since then, but she deserves credit for inventing the idea and its name.
- DonHopkins 5y ago
  You are correct, and additionally, Orson Scott Card definitely doesn't deserve to usurp Ursula K. Le Guin's credit for inventing the idea and coining the word "ansible", because he's a peculiarly obsessed, batshit crazy, foaming-at-the-mouth, homophobic bigot, who actively and professionally fights against LGBTQ+ people and same sex marriage, who was a participating member of the board of the anti-gay hate group National Organization for Marriage, who has systematically and mendaciously spread extremist views, lies, bigotry, and hatred of gays and lesbians, and who has a long sordid history of loudly and publicly advocating making homosexuality and same sex marriage illegal. Orson Scott Card is personally responsible for weaponizing "cancel culture" to cancel and outlaw same sex marriages, so he fully deserves to be just as canceled himself for being a hateful bigot, as he would cancel and destroy other people's families for simply loving someone of the same sex. And Orson Scott Card certainly doesn't deserve credit for an original idea and term coined by a great open minded pioneering feminist science fiction author, Ursula K Le Guin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_K._Le_Guin#Gender_and_sexuality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_K._Le_Guin#Gender_and_s... >Gender and sexuality are prominent themes in a number of Le Guin's works. The Left Hand of Darkness, published in 1969, was among the first books in the genre now known as feminist science fiction, and is the most famous examination of androgyny in science fiction. https://www.verbicidemagazine.com/2013/11/07/homophobia-quotes-orson-scott-card-controversy-bigot-enders-game/ https://www.verbicidemagazine.com/2013/11/07/homophobia-quot... >“Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books, not to be indiscriminately enforced against anyone who happens to be caught violating them, but to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those who flagrantly violate society’s regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society.” -“The Hypocrites of Homosexuality,” in Sunstone magazine, 1990 (source) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card#Homosexuality_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card#Homosexuality... >Card has publicly declared his support of laws against homosexual activity and same-sex marriage. Card's 1990 essay "A Changed Man: The Hypocrites of Homosexuality" was first published in Sunstone and republished in his collection of non-fiction essays, A Storyteller in Zion. In the essay, he wrote in favor of laws against homosexual behavior to discourage the acceptance of homosexual people. He said laws against homosexual acts would encourage communities to trust the government to support traditional "marriage and family relationships." Card also stated in a 2004 column that the development of homosexuality has environmental factors that can include abuse. In May 2013, Card wrote that since 2003, when the US Supreme Court had ruled those laws unconstitutional, he has "no interest in criminalizing homosexual acts". Responding to public criticism of the 1990 essay, Card stated since he received criticism for being both homophobic and for "being too supportive of homosexuality", he considered himself as taking a middle way "which condemns the sin but loves the sinner". Stop Saying You “Love the Sinner; Hate the Sin” https://redeeminggod.com/love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin/ https://redeeminggod.com/love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin/ >The simple fact that we label the person we are talking about as a “sinner” indicates that we do not have love for them in the first place. >Why do we have to “hate” anything?

giantrobot 5y ago

The Ansible in Card's books is purely science fiction. The Ansible's allowed faster-than-light two-way communication. Quantum entanglement does not.

czbond 5y ago
It is late - but while watching an episode of spacetime+ the host stated an entangled pair could be millions of miles apart and one could immediately cause a change in the other. This would be faster than light
- ackbar03 5y ago
  As an arm-chair quantum physicist, I found this article helpful https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2016/05/04/the-real-reasons-quantum-entanglement-doesnt-allow-faster-than-light-communication/?sh=1826d6ee3a1e https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2016/05/04/the-real-r... If the entangled pair is measured precisely at the same time, both parties get the same value instantly. However this fact itself does not allow for actual communication/information passing. For that there needs to be a way to actually control the state. Or something like that Lol
  - dfasdf1231 5y ago
    Lets say I'm in NY, now I go to ask to join a cooking course, they say me: "we will let you know if you're accepted or not". Then I take a plane to the other side of the planet, Japan. We have some pending information, a link between the cooking course acceptation and me. The link will keep existing even if I take a trip to Mars. Then I got accepted in the cooking course, the information about the acceptance changes instantaneously in the whole universe, including in my head (currently in Japan, thousands of miles away from the place when the cooking course decision to accept me occurs). Is this quantum entanglement somehow? It seems to check all the boxes, including that the information changes instantaneously in both sides (I got accepted! even if now I'm in Japan), but I wouldn't know about it till they send me the news using a standard non-quantum channel. FTL comms aren't possible at all here, etc. Then I ask, entanglement occurs continously at levels in universe, when two entities somehow get to share a question, a pending information? Of course I think I'm missing something (a degree or PhD in physics for starters), that's why I'm asking. Thanks in advance.
- roywiggins 5y ago
  It doesn't work like that: you can only measure the state, not set it. Measuring the state does change something (it collapses the wave function, in the Copenhagen interpetation) but not in a way that's measurable by the person at the other end. You can't tell if the wave function collapsed just by measuring one of the entangled particles. There's a theorem in QM the guarantees that you can't use measurements on entangled systems to communicate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem
  - ackbar03 5y ago
    Since you clearly know more than me what your talking about, is it correct to interpret the significance of china's quantum satellite communication as one of quantum cryptography (based on states changing post measurement) rather than potential high speed communication?
    - roywiggins 5y ago
      There's quantum superdense coding, which in theory could allow higher bandwidth (transmitting one qbit can be used to transmit two classical bits) but I believe the main point of quantum channels is for cryptography. If entanglement allowed FTL communication you'd see high-frequency traders already using it!
- giantrobot 5y ago
  That's an incorrect explanation. I find the envelope analogy to be the clearest. I have two cards, a red card and a blue card. I have only one of each. I put each into a totally opaque envelope. I have created an entangled pair. I give you an envelope and you pay SpaceX a few million dollars for a trip to Mars. You have an equal probability of having a red or blue card in your envelope. Once you settle in on Mars and recover a bit from bone and muscle density loss from six months in zero-g you open your envelope. You have the red card. You've just measured the state of the entangled pair. You instantly know I have the blue card but your measurement didn't cause some FTL communication. Because our entangled pair had exclusive states you gain some instant knowledge of my envelope contents. While that's a cool effect it still required classical slower-than-light transmission of the envelope. I also have no knowledge that you opened your envelope until I receive your classical communication saying so. Even if you were just across the room the information about the color of your card would still only travel at the speed of light. Even though you could instantly know the state of my card once you know yours you can only communicate that knowledge to me at the speed of light.
  - czbond 5y ago
    That is a clear explanation - thank you. And I probably misunderstood the exact Spacetime semantics of the situation. Thank you

munchler 5y ago

Ursula K. Le Guin coined the word "ansible" in 1966. Others have used it since then, but she deserves credit for inventing the idea and its name.

DonHopkins 5y ago
You are correct, and additionally, Orson Scott Card definitely doesn't deserve to usurp Ursula K. Le Guin's credit for inventing the idea and coining the word "ansible", because he's a peculiarly obsessed, batshit crazy, foaming-at-the-mouth, homophobic bigot, who actively and professionally fights against LGBTQ+ people and same sex marriage, who was a participating member of the board of the anti-gay hate group National Organization for Marriage, who has systematically and mendaciously spread extremist views, lies, bigotry, and hatred of gays and lesbians, and who has a long sordid history of loudly and publicly advocating making homosexuality and same sex marriage illegal. Orson Scott Card is personally responsible for weaponizing "cancel culture" to cancel and outlaw same sex marriages, so he fully deserves to be just as canceled himself for being a hateful bigot, as he would cancel and destroy other people's families for simply loving someone of the same sex. And Orson Scott Card certainly doesn't deserve credit for an original idea and term coined by a great open minded pioneering feminist science fiction author, Ursula K Le Guin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_K._Le_Guin#Gender_and_sexuality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_K._Le_Guin#Gender_and_s... >Gender and sexuality are prominent themes in a number of Le Guin's works. The Left Hand of Darkness, published in 1969, was among the first books in the genre now known as feminist science fiction, and is the most famous examination of androgyny in science fiction. https://www.verbicidemagazine.com/2013/11/07/homophobia-quotes-orson-scott-card-controversy-bigot-enders-game/ https://www.verbicidemagazine.com/2013/11/07/homophobia-quot... >“Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books, not to be indiscriminately enforced against anyone who happens to be caught violating them, but to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those who flagrantly violate society’s regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society.” -“The Hypocrites of Homosexuality,” in Sunstone magazine, 1990 (source) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card#Homosexuality_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card#Homosexuality... >Card has publicly declared his support of laws against homosexual activity and same-sex marriage. Card's 1990 essay "A Changed Man: The Hypocrites of Homosexuality" was first published in Sunstone and republished in his collection of non-fiction essays, A Storyteller in Zion. In the essay, he wrote in favor of laws against homosexual behavior to discourage the acceptance of homosexual people. He said laws against homosexual acts would encourage communities to trust the government to support traditional "marriage and family relationships." Card also stated in a 2004 column that the development of homosexuality has environmental factors that can include abuse. In May 2013, Card wrote that since 2003, when the US Supreme Court had ruled those laws unconstitutional, he has "no interest in criminalizing homosexual acts". Responding to public criticism of the 1990 essay, Card stated since he received criticism for being both homophobic and for "being too supportive of homosexuality", he considered himself as taking a middle way "which condemns the sin but loves the sinner". Stop Saying You “Love the Sinner; Hate the Sin” https://redeeminggod.com/love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin/ https://redeeminggod.com/love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin/ >The simple fact that we label the person we are talking about as a “sinner” indicates that we do not have love for them in the first place. >Why do we have to “hate” anything?