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Why are the options RAW and JPEG? Why isn't there an option to get images in a standardized format that is wide-gamut with lossless compression? Or even, more m

by thayne 5y ago

Why are the options RAW and JPEG? Why isn't there an option to get images in a standardized format that is wide-gamut with lossless compression? Or even, more modern alternatives than JPEG?

SilverRed 5y ago
There are modern alternatives. AVIF and HEIF. HEIF is used by Apple for photos on the iphone and AVIF is just starting to gain use. Problem is decades of legacy make JPEG hard to replace. Most would rather full support on everything over a small amount of space saving.
- AstralStorm 5y ago
  Neither provides option for raw sensor data, so you're bound to the phone's processing.
wtallis 5y ago
> Why isn't there an option to get images in a standardized format that is wide-gamut with lossless compression? Compression isn't the only mechanism by which you can lose information in the process of going from RAW to something standardized and hardware-neutral. So simply using lossless compression doesn't actually mean you're preserving everything. If you really want lossless compression, you probably also want to preserve information about how the raw image was transformed during demosaicing, denoising, white balancing, etc., all of which are somewhat subjective instead of being exact 1-1 transformations where there's a single right way to do it.
- thayne 5y ago
  Sure. I still think there could be a standard format that includes that information. Note, I'm saying such a format should exist, not that it currently does. As I understand it, RAW is really a collection of a bunch of different proprietary formats where every camera company has their own variant, and even different cameras from the same company have slightly different formats.
  - ironman1478 5y ago
    Raw isn't really a format unless you are referring to CSI packets or something. It's just the values coming off the sensor. Those values are heavily dependent on the design of the sensor. There are significant non linear characteristics in those values and each camera has hw/sw to account for that sensors characteristics. It is very difficult to make two different sensor models that will provide the same exact value for a scene because they way they capture the scene is electrically and physically different. All those algorithms the parent is talking about are custom made per sensor generally. The ideas are the same, but they have to be tuned for each sensor and as the parent said, it's incredibly subjective and every company / vendor approaches the problem differently depending on use case.

by thayne 5y ago

Why are the options RAW and JPEG? Why isn't there an option to get images in a standardized format that is wide-gamut with lossless compression? Or even, more modern alternatives than JPEG?

SilverRed 5y ago

There are modern alternatives. AVIF and HEIF. HEIF is used by Apple for photos on the iphone and AVIF is just starting to gain use. Problem is decades of legacy make JPEG hard to replace. Most would rather full support on everything over a small amount of space saving.

AstralStorm 5y ago
Neither provides option for raw sensor data, so you're bound to the phone's processing.

wtallis 5y ago

> Why isn't there an option to get images in a standardized format that is wide-gamut with lossless compression? Compression isn't the only mechanism by which you can lose information in the process of going from RAW to something standardized and hardware-neutral. So simply using lossless compression doesn't actually mean you're preserving everything. If you really want lossless compression, you probably also want to preserve information about how the raw image was transformed during demosaicing, denoising, white balancing, etc., all of which are somewhat subjective instead of being exact 1-1 transformations where there's a single right way to do it.

thayne 5y ago
Sure. I still think there could be a standard format that includes that information. Note, I'm saying such a format should exist, not that it currently does. As I understand it, RAW is really a collection of a bunch of different proprietary formats where every camera company has their own variant, and even different cameras from the same company have slightly different formats.
- ironman1478 5y ago
  Raw isn't really a format unless you are referring to CSI packets or something. It's just the values coming off the sensor. Those values are heavily dependent on the design of the sensor. There are significant non linear characteristics in those values and each camera has hw/sw to account for that sensors characteristics. It is very difficult to make two different sensor models that will provide the same exact value for a scene because they way they capture the scene is electrically and physically different. All those algorithms the parent is talking about are custom made per sensor generally. The ideas are the same, but they have to be tuned for each sensor and as the parent said, it's incredibly subjective and every company / vendor approaches the problem differently depending on use case.