3 ms·

> My money's on yes, but this isn't settled until SCOTUS says so. there are more countries in the world than the United States, and most of the world's develop

> My money's on yes, but this isn't settled until SCOTUS says so. there are more countries in the world than the United States, and most of the world's developers live outside of the United States copyright only works because the Berne Convention was more or less universally agreed between governments most countries won't pay any attention to what the US Supreme Court decides

judge2020 5y ago
> most countries won't pay any attention to what the US Supreme Court decides Copyright lawsuits across nation state lines are pretty much non-existent and not worth it. What matters in the U.S. is pretty much as far as anyone who cares about copyright is going to care about.
- blibble 5y ago
  I am capable of suing Microsoft in the UK for violating my UK copyright without requiring any involvement with the US legal system and the UK has essentially no concept of fair use and the same will play out across every country in Europe and the 90% of the world that isn't the United States
  - judge2020 5y ago
    But that just becomes a copyright dispute with the country. The only thing preventing Microsoft from just not showing up to your court case is that they have presence there and want to continue doing business in the country. Imagine you write a project and some solo developer in the U.S. (that's not Microsoft) violates your copyright - the only way you would get damages or injunctive relief is by suing them in the U.S. or hoping the U.K. passes a judgement on them and extradites or sanctions them. If they never plan to go to the U.K. and the U.K. doesn't extradite them for nonpayment or noncompliance of whatever judgement you have against them, there's not really much you can do. https://www.lw.com/thoughtLeadership/enforcement-of-foreign-judgments-2021 https://www.lw.com/thoughtLeadership/enforcement-of-foreign-...
    - blibble 5y ago
      > Imagine you write a project and some solo developer in the U.S. (that's not Microsoft) violates your copyright how is this completely different situation relevant in the slightest? we're talking about possible massive, pre-medidated industrial scale copyright infringement by Microsoft, a large multinational with a substantial UK presence not some random guy in the US if Microsoft don't show up to the court: I win by default I can then send in the bailiffs to start seizing their property (and their staff will be arrested if they interfere) personally I'd start at one of their datacentres
      - judge2020 5y ago
        It's your prerogative who you sue, but again, i'm just describing how the law works in relation to copyright suits. That situation matters because there's no international law that says whoever you sue has to fly to your country and show up to your lawsuit, it's that the UK only has jurisdiction over the UK (and incidentally some jurisdiction over commonwealth nations via AJA 1920). imagine it weren't 'some guy' but a US-only startup selling only to U.S. based firms and they were valued tomorrow at $100B, regardless of their size you wouldn't have a way of seizing their property since the UK can't seize property in another country (I guess not without that country's permission). The only way they would be punished is if they're sanctioned and thus can never do business within the UK, or they get extradited some-how some-way. Microsoft indeed will show up because they want to keep selling Windows and Office 365 there, but otherwise, as I've said, copyright lawsuits across nation state lines and not within a single country basically don't happen.

judge2020 5y ago

> most countries won't pay any attention to what the US Supreme Court decides Copyright lawsuits across nation state lines are pretty much non-existent and not worth it. What matters in the U.S. is pretty much as far as anyone who cares about copyright is going to care about.

blibble 5y ago
I am capable of suing Microsoft in the UK for violating my UK copyright without requiring any involvement with the US legal system and the UK has essentially no concept of fair use and the same will play out across every country in Europe and the 90% of the world that isn't the United States
- judge2020 5y ago
  But that just becomes a copyright dispute with the country. The only thing preventing Microsoft from just not showing up to your court case is that they have presence there and want to continue doing business in the country. Imagine you write a project and some solo developer in the U.S. (that's not Microsoft) violates your copyright - the only way you would get damages or injunctive relief is by suing them in the U.S. or hoping the U.K. passes a judgement on them and extradites or sanctions them. If they never plan to go to the U.K. and the U.K. doesn't extradite them for nonpayment or noncompliance of whatever judgement you have against them, there's not really much you can do. https://www.lw.com/thoughtLeadership/enforcement-of-foreign-judgments-2021 https://www.lw.com/thoughtLeadership/enforcement-of-foreign-...
  - blibble 5y ago
    > Imagine you write a project and some solo developer in the U.S. (that's not Microsoft) violates your copyright how is this completely different situation relevant in the slightest? we're talking about possible massive, pre-medidated industrial scale copyright infringement by Microsoft, a large multinational with a substantial UK presence not some random guy in the US if Microsoft don't show up to the court: I win by default I can then send in the bailiffs to start seizing their property (and their staff will be arrested if they interfere) personally I'd start at one of their datacentres
    - judge2020 5y ago
      It's your prerogative who you sue, but again, i'm just describing how the law works in relation to copyright suits. That situation matters because there's no international law that says whoever you sue has to fly to your country and show up to your lawsuit, it's that the UK only has jurisdiction over the UK (and incidentally some jurisdiction over commonwealth nations via AJA 1920). imagine it weren't 'some guy' but a US-only startup selling only to U.S. based firms and they were valued tomorrow at $100B, regardless of their size you wouldn't have a way of seizing their property since the UK can't seize property in another country (I guess not without that country's permission). The only way they would be punished is if they're sanctioned and thus can never do business within the UK, or they get extradited some-how some-way. Microsoft indeed will show up because they want to keep selling Windows and Office 365 there, but otherwise, as I've said, copyright lawsuits across nation state lines and not within a single country basically don't happen.