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For reference, I got buried in downvotes[1] the other day when I said*: > Whether these particular vaccines are saving any lives is an open question. From the

by nanis 5y ago

For reference, I got buried in downvotes[1] the other day when I said*: > Whether these particular vaccines are saving any lives is an open question. From the linked article: > Before Provincetown, health officials had been operating under the assumption that it was extraordinarily rare for a vaccinated person to become infected with the virus. And if they did, they probably wouldn't end up passing it on to others, such as children too young to qualify for the vaccine or people who were medically vulnerable. What happened in Provincetown? > The outbreak quickly grew to the hundreds and most of them appeared to be vaccinated. It seems like the main impact of these particular vaccines is to create typhoid Marys[2]. [*]: I am not soliciting votes, just referring to the unwillingness of some to consider facts that do not fit their preconceived notions. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27986713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27986713 [2]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959940/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959940/

emodendroket 5y ago
That doesn't make sense. If everyone who got the vaccine is becoming a "Typhoid Mary" that means it works to protect vaccinated people.
- nanis 5y ago
  Some of them do get seriously ill and/or die. It seems, vaccinated suffer less symptoms or onset is later. However, they seem to have higher viral loads. This gives them more chances to mingle while they are infected but unaware of it. It's an analogy. It's not perfect. > Mary Mallon, the first known case of a healthy carrier in the United States, was proven responsible for the contamination of at least one hundred and twenty two people, including five dead [5].
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    Do they? The article mentions vaccinated people being “symptomatic,” not hospitalized or dead. Officials seem to be shifting to an understanding that vaccines are providing personal protection more than herd immunity, see https://apple.news/AGgVqTlDsSCSsXJ_FgGvh8A https://apple.news/AGgVqTlDsSCSsXJ_FgGvh8A for instance.
    - nanis 5y ago
      See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27988322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27988322 Between April 30 and July, number of fully vaccinated increased by 60%. Number of deceased among fully vaccinated increased by 543%.

by nanis 5y ago

emodendroket 5y ago

That doesn't make sense. If everyone who got the vaccine is becoming a "Typhoid Mary" that means it works to protect vaccinated people.

nanis 5y ago
Some of them do get seriously ill and/or die. It seems, vaccinated suffer less symptoms or onset is later. However, they seem to have higher viral loads. This gives them more chances to mingle while they are infected but unaware of it. It's an analogy. It's not perfect. > Mary Mallon, the first known case of a healthy carrier in the United States, was proven responsible for the contamination of at least one hundred and twenty two people, including five dead [5].
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Do they? The article mentions vaccinated people being “symptomatic,” not hospitalized or dead. Officials seem to be shifting to an understanding that vaccines are providing personal protection more than herd immunity, see https://apple.news/AGgVqTlDsSCSsXJ_FgGvh8A https://apple.news/AGgVqTlDsSCSsXJ_FgGvh8A for instance.
  - nanis 5y ago
    See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27988322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27988322 Between April 30 and July, number of fully vaccinated increased by 60%. Number of deceased among fully vaccinated increased by 543%.