3 ms·
It’s not all that different. The argument basically comes down to one of speech and artistic expression. Hear the government is requiring you to support a posit
by underseacables 5y ago
It’s not all that different. The argument basically comes down to one of speech and artistic expression. Hear the government is requiring you to support a position with your speech and artistic expression. This is completely different from, say, housing. Refusing housing to someone based on their sexuality is clear discrimination. Refusing to bake a cake, to build a website, to support a position to disagree with, is government coercion of speech. I have absolutely no problem with the same sex marriage, transgender rights, any of that, but I do have a problem with the government forcing speech and expression.
- threatofrain 5y agoIt would be the same sort of coercion when government compels companies to serve black or disabled customers for creative or expressive products, regardless of any deeply held spiritual beliefs about black or disabled populations.
- underseacables 5y agoIncorrect. I am not a lawyer, but serving a customer is not a form of speech or expression. Making a website and decorating a cake, are forms of expression and speech.
- threatofrain 5y agoI'm talking about services provided to the market. Services can naturally include expressive or creative products, or even literally speeches.
- furgooswft13 5y agoGood to know. I guess Google/Facebook/Twitter will stop censoring speech on their services then.
- benjohnson 5y agoThat's an interesting point - if indeed Facebook is providing a service, then using that logic they can't discriminate on providing that service for a protected class engaging in speech if they provide the same service to the public. If we are going to be consistent on what a service is, and what speech is allowed on a service, this could get really interesting.
- hellisothers 5y agoThe common thread though is this is a business and you can’t discriminate against customers. I’f you were a town crier and offerd the service of walking around town announcing weddings you should be compelled to not discriminate in offering your service despite it being literally your speech. It’s not free, you’re being paid, free is your own time.
- furgooswft13 5y agoBy this reasoning, a Jewish baker should be compelled by the government to bake a cake with a swastika on it.
- threatofrain 5y agoDo you mean more like compelling a supporter of Nazism to bake a Jewish wedding cake? The donning of Nazi political symbols is not a religion, but it could be considered a political position.
- furgooswft13 5y agoHow bout compelling a gay owned bakery to bake a cake saying "homosexuality is a sin"? Note GP did not distinguish between political or religious speech, not that there's a material difference IMO.
- ykevinator3 5y agoCorrect and it is a good thing, this is america not israel, it's why america is exceptional. Plus god is not real.
- pseudo0 5y agoSo a LGBT cake shop should be forced to write anti-gay bible verses on cakes? Religion is also a protected class. Splitting services into speech and non-speech isn't a perfect solution, but it seems like a decent compromise compared to the alternatives.
- furgooswft13 5y agoThis is correct. In both this case and "cake guy", the parties explicitly stated they had no problem serving homosexual customers, just that they refuse to design certain custom messages/art, this case being same-sex marriage.