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For the overwhelmingly majority of owners, large trucks are completely unnecessary. Non-owners effectively subsidize them when you factor in the huge negative

For the overwhelmingly majority of owners, large trucks are completely unnecessary. Non-owners effectively subsidize them when you factor in the huge negative externalities they impose, including on the environment, the wear and tear on roads, the public safety hazards, production opportunity costs, etc. This thread summarizes things well: https://twitter.com/PostCultRev/status/1419689420714700805?s=20 https://twitter.com/PostCultRev/status/1419689420714700805?s...

rootusrootus 5y ago
> For the overwhelmingly majority of owners, large trucks are completely unnecessary. How do you propose to quantify "unnecessary"? And what would your solution be?
- jwilber 5y ago
  Unnecessary may simply be the % of use by the truck dedicated to just commuting, where that % is so high as to not justify the negative externalities imposed by such a vehicle. Pretty standard stuff in actuarial work. Anecdotally, my compact, hatchback Kia Rio and can fit four +9ft surfboards just fine. A solution would be taxing larger vehicles to take into account the externalities they create, or do like myself and purchase a safer vehicle that can load just as easily. If you’re not moving heavy equipment, you don’t need a big truck. If you are, treat it like a fork-list: assign a license.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Most states already have higher registration taxes. Plus you have second order taxes like paying more fuel tax because they are less efficient. "If you’re not moving heavy equipment, you don’t need a big truck. If you are, treat it like a fork-list: assign a license." Do you mean pickups or actual big trucks? Big trucks do require different license classes.
- asdff 5y ago
  Is there one person in the cab? Is the bed empty? Then its unnecessary. You could quantify this unnecessary factor explicitly, divide the weight of persons+cargo by the weight of the vehicle and we could call the resulting ratio "ridiculousness" with a certain threshold. If I really need to do truck stuff one day, I rent one from the hardware store.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    So if I were to drive my truck to the grocery store by myself, that means my truck is unnecessary? That may be a little presumptuous.
    - asdff 5y ago
      Of course it is. You might weigh 180lbs and are buying 20lbs of groceries lets say. Your truck is 5000lbs. 96% of the resources used are just to move that hunk of metal around. Use a moped or better yet a bike for that sort of trip. Use the truck when you need to tow a 20 foot boat. Tool for the job, and all.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    What's the ratio for Tesla S with one occupant vs a 4100 lbs F150? Even a model 3 with long range and dual motors has a poor ratio, right? Seems like this ratio isn't a great indicator of ridiculousness if we aren't factoring in other things. Not to mention it would change based on the day. If you need the truck once per week or more, it probably makes more sense to own rather than rent, even if 'the ratio' looks 'bad' 75% of the time. The number if heavy vehicles are only going to increase as we adopt electric.
    - asdff 5y ago
      Which is a problem. We should be adopting lighter vehicles like ebikes and emopeds for most trips and errands around town instead of 4000lbs 16 feet long Teslas and massive F150s where we might use their capabilities once or twice a week. A new ebike is the price of an options package on an F150.
droopyEyelids 5y ago
It gets weird when you realize that if trucks are unnecessary and stupid, but SUVs are ok, what you're reading is an argument that trucks are OK so long as they have a covered bed.
waiseristy 5y ago
That thread is completely tone-deaf as to why Truck Owners buy trucks And EV's are completely turning the road-wear argument on it's head
- jwilber 5y ago
  That thread is supplementary to this thread, which discusses safety. But I’d be interested in the improvements on road wear from new ev trucks - I haven’t heard of any. To be fair, they’re definitely better for the environment. And as someone who has worked construction, the multi charging ports are a game changer. But, again, this is about safety.
  - waiseristy 5y ago
    The road wear argument is regarding the weight of the vehicle. A model S weighs equal to, or greater than an F150. A model X is approaching 1/2 ton territory The post you mention also talks about a Minivan being a better choice than a half ton truck for "hauling plywood". Minivans, according to this post, are as dangerous, or more dangerous than trucks in the US. I just don't understand what this random twitter person adds to this study outside of dogpiling on this stupid culture rift.

rootusrootus 5y ago

> For the overwhelmingly majority of owners, large trucks are completely unnecessary. How do you propose to quantify "unnecessary"? And what would your solution be?

jwilber 5y ago
Unnecessary may simply be the % of use by the truck dedicated to just commuting, where that % is so high as to not justify the negative externalities imposed by such a vehicle. Pretty standard stuff in actuarial work. Anecdotally, my compact, hatchback Kia Rio and can fit four +9ft surfboards just fine. A solution would be taxing larger vehicles to take into account the externalities they create, or do like myself and purchase a safer vehicle that can load just as easily. If you’re not moving heavy equipment, you don’t need a big truck. If you are, treat it like a fork-list: assign a license.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Most states already have higher registration taxes. Plus you have second order taxes like paying more fuel tax because they are less efficient. "If you’re not moving heavy equipment, you don’t need a big truck. If you are, treat it like a fork-list: assign a license." Do you mean pickups or actual big trucks? Big trucks do require different license classes.
asdff 5y ago
Is there one person in the cab? Is the bed empty? Then its unnecessary. You could quantify this unnecessary factor explicitly, divide the weight of persons+cargo by the weight of the vehicle and we could call the resulting ratio "ridiculousness" with a certain threshold. If I really need to do truck stuff one day, I rent one from the hardware store.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  So if I were to drive my truck to the grocery store by myself, that means my truck is unnecessary? That may be a little presumptuous.
  - asdff 5y ago
    Of course it is. You might weigh 180lbs and are buying 20lbs of groceries lets say. Your truck is 5000lbs. 96% of the resources used are just to move that hunk of metal around. Use a moped or better yet a bike for that sort of trip. Use the truck when you need to tow a 20 foot boat. Tool for the job, and all.
- giantg2 5y ago
  What's the ratio for Tesla S with one occupant vs a 4100 lbs F150? Even a model 3 with long range and dual motors has a poor ratio, right? Seems like this ratio isn't a great indicator of ridiculousness if we aren't factoring in other things. Not to mention it would change based on the day. If you need the truck once per week or more, it probably makes more sense to own rather than rent, even if 'the ratio' looks 'bad' 75% of the time. The number if heavy vehicles are only going to increase as we adopt electric.
  - asdff 5y ago
    Which is a problem. We should be adopting lighter vehicles like ebikes and emopeds for most trips and errands around town instead of 4000lbs 16 feet long Teslas and massive F150s where we might use their capabilities once or twice a week. A new ebike is the price of an options package on an F150.

droopyEyelids 5y ago

It gets weird when you realize that if trucks are unnecessary and stupid, but SUVs are ok, what you're reading is an argument that trucks are OK so long as they have a covered bed.

waiseristy 5y ago

That thread is completely tone-deaf as to why Truck Owners buy trucks And EV's are completely turning the road-wear argument on it's head

jwilber 5y ago
That thread is supplementary to this thread, which discusses safety. But I’d be interested in the improvements on road wear from new ev trucks - I haven’t heard of any. To be fair, they’re definitely better for the environment. And as someone who has worked construction, the multi charging ports are a game changer. But, again, this is about safety.
- waiseristy 5y ago
  The road wear argument is regarding the weight of the vehicle. A model S weighs equal to, or greater than an F150. A model X is approaching 1/2 ton territory The post you mention also talks about a Minivan being a better choice than a half ton truck for "hauling plywood". Minivans, according to this post, are as dangerous, or more dangerous than trucks in the US. I just don't understand what this random twitter person adds to this study outside of dogpiling on this stupid culture rift.