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CDC mask decision followed stunning findings from Cape Cod beach outbreak

lsllc 5y ago
"As of Thursday, 882 people were tied to the Provincetown outbreak. Among those living in Massachusetts, 74% of them were fully immunized, yet officials said the vast majority were also reporting symptoms. Seven people were reported hospitalized." Wow.
- WheelsAtLarge 5y ago
  As long as people won't embrace vaccines as a way to prevent the spread of COVID, this is our future. We'll have constant outbreaks. It's sad, we have a solution but since we can't get consensus on its benefits, it's not as effective as it could be. I suspect that the only way that it will go away is that it will become part of the childhood vaccine regiment and slowly it will disappear but that's a long way away.
  - AndrewBissell 5y ago
    Did you RTFA? It's about an outbreak that occurred among many, many vaccinated people, who subsequently exhibited high viral load and came down with symptomatic illness, in a state with a 74% vaccination rate. There is zero evidence that all this is occurring because the vaccination rate is at some arbitrary level less than 100%. Gibraltar and Iceland have also had outbreaks despite very high vaccination rates. Sorry the vaccines aren't the miracle elixir they told you they were.
    - WheelsAtLarge 5y ago
      Herd immunity is the biggest benefit of vaccines since vaccines aren't 100% effective, no vaccine is. The Smallpox vaccine is 95+ effective and loses effectiveness over time. Yet, we don't see Smallpox outbreaks. It's all related to herd immunity. The COVID vaccines have a high immunity rate but they will only stop outbreaks, if the majority of people will use them. If we don't act together, it's going to take a long time for that to happen.
      - salawat 5y ago
        Fully immunized individuals had viral breakthrough. Herd immunity means nothing in that case.
mgh2 5y ago
I think we should not underestimate this part: > When a vaccinated person gets infected with delta -- called a "breakthrough infection" -- "the level of virus in their nasopharynx is about 1,000 times higher than with the alpha variant," Fauci said in an interview Wednesday with MSNBC.
nanis 5y ago
For reference, I got buried in downvotes[1] the other day when I said*: > Whether these particular vaccines are saving any lives is an open question. From the linked article: > Before Provincetown, health officials had been operating under the assumption that it was extraordinarily rare for a vaccinated person to become infected with the virus. And if they did, they probably wouldn't end up passing it on to others, such as children too young to qualify for the vaccine or people who were medically vulnerable. What happened in Provincetown? > The outbreak quickly grew to the hundreds and most of them appeared to be vaccinated. It seems like the main impact of these particular vaccines is to create typhoid Marys[2]. [*]: I am not soliciting votes, just referring to the unwillingness of some to consider facts that do not fit their preconceived notions. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27986713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27986713 [2]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959940/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959940/
- emodendroket 5y ago
  That doesn't make sense. If everyone who got the vaccine is becoming a "Typhoid Mary" that means it works to protect vaccinated people.
  - nanis 5y ago
    Some of them do get seriously ill and/or die. It seems, vaccinated suffer less symptoms or onset is later. However, they seem to have higher viral loads. This gives them more chances to mingle while they are infected but unaware of it. It's an analogy. It's not perfect. > Mary Mallon, the first known case of a healthy carrier in the United States, was proven responsible for the contamination of at least one hundred and twenty two people, including five dead [5].
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      Do they? The article mentions vaccinated people being “symptomatic,” not hospitalized or dead. Officials seem to be shifting to an understanding that vaccines are providing personal protection more than herd immunity, see https://apple.news/AGgVqTlDsSCSsXJ_FgGvh8A https://apple.news/AGgVqTlDsSCSsXJ_FgGvh8A for instance.

"As of Thursday, 882 people were tied to the Provincetown outbreak. Among those living in Massachusetts, 74% of them were fully immunized, yet officials said the vast majority were also reporting symptoms. Seven people were reported hospitalized." Wow.

WheelsAtLarge 5y ago
As long as people won't embrace vaccines as a way to prevent the spread of COVID, this is our future. We'll have constant outbreaks. It's sad, we have a solution but since we can't get consensus on its benefits, it's not as effective as it could be. I suspect that the only way that it will go away is that it will become part of the childhood vaccine regiment and slowly it will disappear but that's a long way away.
- AndrewBissell 5y ago
  Did you RTFA? It's about an outbreak that occurred among many, many vaccinated people, who subsequently exhibited high viral load and came down with symptomatic illness, in a state with a 74% vaccination rate. There is zero evidence that all this is occurring because the vaccination rate is at some arbitrary level less than 100%. Gibraltar and Iceland have also had outbreaks despite very high vaccination rates. Sorry the vaccines aren't the miracle elixir they told you they were.
  - WheelsAtLarge 5y ago
    Herd immunity is the biggest benefit of vaccines since vaccines aren't 100% effective, no vaccine is. The Smallpox vaccine is 95+ effective and loses effectiveness over time. Yet, we don't see Smallpox outbreaks. It's all related to herd immunity. The COVID vaccines have a high immunity rate but they will only stop outbreaks, if the majority of people will use them. If we don't act together, it's going to take a long time for that to happen.
    - salawat 5y ago
      Fully immunized individuals had viral breakthrough. Herd immunity means nothing in that case.

mgh2 5y ago

I think we should not underestimate this part: > When a vaccinated person gets infected with delta -- called a "breakthrough infection" -- "the level of virus in their nasopharynx is about 1,000 times higher than with the alpha variant," Fauci said in an interview Wednesday with MSNBC.

nanis 5y ago

For reference, I got buried in downvotes[1] the other day when I said*: > Whether these particular vaccines are saving any lives is an open question. From the linked article: > Before Provincetown, health officials had been operating under the assumption that it was extraordinarily rare for a vaccinated person to become infected with the virus. And if they did, they probably wouldn't end up passing it on to others, such as children too young to qualify for the vaccine or people who were medically vulnerable. What happened in Provincetown? > The outbreak quickly grew to the hundreds and most of them appeared to be vaccinated. It seems like the main impact of these particular vaccines is to create typhoid Marys[2]. [*]: I am not soliciting votes, just referring to the unwillingness of some to consider facts that do not fit their preconceived notions. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27986713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27986713 [2]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959940/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959940/

emodendroket 5y ago
That doesn't make sense. If everyone who got the vaccine is becoming a "Typhoid Mary" that means it works to protect vaccinated people.
- nanis 5y ago
  Some of them do get seriously ill and/or die. It seems, vaccinated suffer less symptoms or onset is later. However, they seem to have higher viral loads. This gives them more chances to mingle while they are infected but unaware of it. It's an analogy. It's not perfect. > Mary Mallon, the first known case of a healthy carrier in the United States, was proven responsible for the contamination of at least one hundred and twenty two people, including five dead [5].
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    Do they? The article mentions vaccinated people being “symptomatic,” not hospitalized or dead. Officials seem to be shifting to an understanding that vaccines are providing personal protection more than herd immunity, see https://apple.news/AGgVqTlDsSCSsXJ_FgGvh8A https://apple.news/AGgVqTlDsSCSsXJ_FgGvh8A for instance.