4 ms·

And the real shame is, it's a perfectly rational one. I might be starting a family soon, and I honestly don't know how I'm going to navigate this hazard.

nerdponx 5y ago
Minivan might be a good compromise, arguably more practical than the truck anyway, unless the truck is for work or other usage that actually justifies the truck-ness of it.
- caconym_ 5y ago
  Minivans are exactly what we need to go back to. Problem is, in an arms race like this they may have mass on their side but they don't put passengers high up enough to be safe from a truck, especially a modified one.
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    A starting point here would be regulations around driver visibility.
  - waiseristy 5y ago
    Minivans are part of the problem according to this paper "I find pickup trucks, minivans and SUVs all significantly increase pedestrian fatalities relative to cars. Converting 10% of the vehicle fleet from cars to pickups is estimated to increase the pedestrian fatality rate by .04 deaths per 100,000 residents (3.4% in the median metro). I find that converting 10% of cars to minivans would increase pedestrain deaths by .05 deaths per 100,000 residents (3.9% in the median metro). Converting 10% of cars to SUVs would increase pedestrian deaths by .03 deaths per 100,000, or 2.6% in the median metro. In column 4 I further break out SUVs into Large and Small SUVs." If I'm reading this right, it's the worst of the 3
    - caconym_ 5y ago
      Interesting. I wonder if it's a visibility thing, or vehicle geometry, or traits common to the typical minivan driver, or what. I would expect to find that they are not as dangerous to occupants of other vehicles as trucks and larger, higher-riding SUVs, which is half of what I'm talking about here, but I could absolutely be wrong about that.
      - waiseristy 5y ago
        Trucks have ground clearance, their bumpers are still at a side-crash-bar level. Minivans also weigh nearly as much as most trucks. Typically more than a light duty truck. This study and the title of this post obviously state that Large Vehicles == More Pedestrian Deaths. Be it a minivan, Tesla, Truck, or whatever. Everyone in this thread finger-pointing at their perceived cultural enemies identities is straight up moronic
      - randerson 5y ago
        If I had to hazard a guess, minivans look to have a higher center of gravity than SUVs, so it is easier to lose control. And for whatever reason Porsche/BMW/Mercedes have performance-oriented SUVs with sports-car-like handling and braking, whereas nobody seems to be doing this with minivans, so this may skew the results in favor of SUVs. Why trucks fare better than minivans though, I have no idea..
      - throwawaysea 5y ago
        Part of it is probably cost. The average new pickup truck that is sold in the US costs just over $50K, while the most expensive versions of the Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna minivans come in under $50K. The average new truck probably has relatively more electronic safety features at those price points (things like collision avoidance) as well as cameras suited to driving a bigger vehicle that can also tow big things.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    The bumper on my stock F250 would hit almost any sedan directly in the door's crash beam. A minivan is a little taller. Lifted trucks are a different story.
- giantg2 5y ago
  I agree that minivans are very useful. There's also cost to consider. When I was looking, the basic minivan was at least $5k more than a basic work truck with extended cab.
louwrentius 5y ago
Buy a used 18-wheeler. The mileage is not great but safety comes first right? And you won't even notice pedestrians, as a nice added bonus. Any reference to Mad Max - Fury Road is just coincidence. “If the government wanted people to drive safely, they’d mandate a spike in the middle of each steering wheel.” – Gordon Tullock May I invite you to migrate to Western-Europe? You can even do without a car if you want to.
- caconym_ 5y ago
  I am actually a UK citizen, and you can bet I've been thinking about this possibility a lot in the last few years. (Though maybe the UK doesn't really count as "western Europe" anymore?)
  - louwrentius 5y ago
    Ok, thought it wasn’t as bad with regard to large cars over there as we don’t have those humongous trucks the US have. Or are you in the US? I would invite you to The Netherlands but the housing prices and rent are beyond insane… not sure that would work out.
nabilhat 5y ago
It's a legitimately hard choice to base on real world statistics, more due to availability than anything else. IIHS does present some basic detail for occupants [0] [1], although only as recent as 4 years so statistics can have some time to build. That's okay, it's enough to put some perspective on new cars as well. It's at least a partially objective look at what safety by pickup vs sedan vs minivan vs whatever looks like for the people inside your vehicle. [0] https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-model https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-... [1] pdf https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocument/status-report/pdf/55/2 https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocument/status-report/pdf...

nerdponx 5y ago

Minivan might be a good compromise, arguably more practical than the truck anyway, unless the truck is for work or other usage that actually justifies the truck-ness of it.

caconym_ 5y ago
Minivans are exactly what we need to go back to. Problem is, in an arms race like this they may have mass on their side but they don't put passengers high up enough to be safe from a truck, especially a modified one.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  A starting point here would be regulations around driver visibility.
- waiseristy 5y ago
  Minivans are part of the problem according to this paper "I find pickup trucks, minivans and SUVs all significantly increase pedestrian fatalities relative to cars. Converting 10% of the vehicle fleet from cars to pickups is estimated to increase the pedestrian fatality rate by .04 deaths per 100,000 residents (3.4% in the median metro). I find that converting 10% of cars to minivans would increase pedestrain deaths by .05 deaths per 100,000 residents (3.9% in the median metro). Converting 10% of cars to SUVs would increase pedestrian deaths by .03 deaths per 100,000, or 2.6% in the median metro. In column 4 I further break out SUVs into Large and Small SUVs." If I'm reading this right, it's the worst of the 3
  - caconym_ 5y ago
    Interesting. I wonder if it's a visibility thing, or vehicle geometry, or traits common to the typical minivan driver, or what. I would expect to find that they are not as dangerous to occupants of other vehicles as trucks and larger, higher-riding SUVs, which is half of what I'm talking about here, but I could absolutely be wrong about that.
    - waiseristy 5y ago
      Trucks have ground clearance, their bumpers are still at a side-crash-bar level. Minivans also weigh nearly as much as most trucks. Typically more than a light duty truck. This study and the title of this post obviously state that Large Vehicles == More Pedestrian Deaths. Be it a minivan, Tesla, Truck, or whatever. Everyone in this thread finger-pointing at their perceived cultural enemies identities is straight up moronic
    - randerson 5y ago
      If I had to hazard a guess, minivans look to have a higher center of gravity than SUVs, so it is easier to lose control. And for whatever reason Porsche/BMW/Mercedes have performance-oriented SUVs with sports-car-like handling and braking, whereas nobody seems to be doing this with minivans, so this may skew the results in favor of SUVs. Why trucks fare better than minivans though, I have no idea..
    - throwawaysea 5y ago
      Part of it is probably cost. The average new pickup truck that is sold in the US costs just over $50K, while the most expensive versions of the Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna minivans come in under $50K. The average new truck probably has relatively more electronic safety features at those price points (things like collision avoidance) as well as cameras suited to driving a bigger vehicle that can also tow big things.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  The bumper on my stock F250 would hit almost any sedan directly in the door's crash beam. A minivan is a little taller. Lifted trucks are a different story.
giantg2 5y ago
I agree that minivans are very useful. There's also cost to consider. When I was looking, the basic minivan was at least $5k more than a basic work truck with extended cab.

louwrentius 5y ago

Buy a used 18-wheeler. The mileage is not great but safety comes first right? And you won't even notice pedestrians, as a nice added bonus. Any reference to Mad Max - Fury Road is just coincidence. “If the government wanted people to drive safely, they’d mandate a spike in the middle of each steering wheel.” – Gordon Tullock May I invite you to migrate to Western-Europe? You can even do without a car if you want to.

caconym_ 5y ago
I am actually a UK citizen, and you can bet I've been thinking about this possibility a lot in the last few years. (Though maybe the UK doesn't really count as "western Europe" anymore?)
- louwrentius 5y ago
  Ok, thought it wasn’t as bad with regard to large cars over there as we don’t have those humongous trucks the US have. Or are you in the US? I would invite you to The Netherlands but the housing prices and rent are beyond insane… not sure that would work out.

nabilhat 5y ago

It's a legitimately hard choice to base on real world statistics, more due to availability than anything else. IIHS does present some basic detail for occupants [0] [1], although only as recent as 4 years so statistics can have some time to build. That's okay, it's enough to put some perspective on new cars as well. It's at least a partially objective look at what safety by pickup vs sedan vs minivan vs whatever looks like for the people inside your vehicle. [0] https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-model https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-... [1] pdf https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocument/status-report/pdf/55/2 https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocument/status-report/pdf...