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> do they just think that everyone else is so easily manipulated, but somehow they're above the fray? Based on my own anecdotal evidence, it’s exactly this. Th

> do they just think that everyone else is so easily manipulated, but somehow they're above the fray? Based on my own anecdotal evidence, it’s exactly this. The people that went down the rabbit hole of QAnon on YouTube are, in their mind, the informed ones. They’re the ones that went out of their way to do the research and the rest of us are just lemmings. Thus, spending hours staring at an algorithmically generated video feed is actually a positive attribute rather than the obviously negative one the rest of us see.

codeecan 5y ago
If you believe "the vaccine turned people into the Hulk", thats a mental health problem. But when inconvenient claims, like "vaccines can cause blood clots in rare cases", often flagged as misinformation, you don't instil much confidence with the public. And so they go out and get information from other sources.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  "If you believe "the vaccine turned people into the Hulk", thats a mental health problem." Then half the population is mentally ill. Come to think of it, that would explain a lot of issues we are dealing with...
  - account42 5y ago
    Or perhaps half the popultation does not in fact believe that but you insist on putting any detractors in one bucket.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  Has "vaccines can cause blood clots in rare cases" been flagged as misinformation? I don't think it has. I get the impression that the misinformation filter is 99% accurate.
- robbrown451 5y ago
  There are crazy things that people believe (not necessarily vaccines turning people into the Hulk, but still) that, in the past, I would have assumed were mental health issues. But when massive numbers of people believe these things, blaming it on individual problems is not so productive. About 300 people a day are dying because intense political polarization has caused people to believe whatever best feeds their tribal urges. The same thing caused an attack on the US seat of government, and a very large percentage of the population thinks that's ok. I don't know the solution, short of us declaring that the internet and cable tv was a bad idea and we need to go back to simpler times of unconnected computers and 3 TV networks. But I'd agree that facebook, Twitter, etc has to do something.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- exporectomy 5y ago
  > If you believe "the vaccine turned people into the Hulk", thats a mental health problem. Can you identify anyone who actually believes that? Keep in mind that people don't always have logically consistent beliefs, and they sometimes exaggerate their beliefs so they're not even true at all. If I really believed that claim, I would be making a bet with somebody who doesn't believe it and prove myself right by finding this hulk and asking them to punch a hole in a brick wall of flip a car over or something like that. Are there people who have put their own skin in the game like that to support that belief? If not, you're probably strawmanning.
  - selcuka 5y ago
    > Can you identify anyone who actually believes that? I'm not sure if you are trolling but even though Hulk is a hypothetical example, people believe equally strange things, such as invisible microchips inside face masks, viruses being spread by 5G cell towers, that the world is flat and Australia does not exist.
    - exporectomy 5y ago
      But do they stake something of significant value on those beliefs or just say them on the internet and it's you who is incorrectly believing their claims of their beliefs to be true? People often willingly enjoy false beliefs for emotional reasons and wouldn't actually act on them if the outcome was going to materially affect them. I used to have a conversation with a crank who kept almost inventing perpetual motion machines. But every time he had nearly finished one, he somehow didn't quite do the last few steps. He talked like he believed they would work but somebody who actually believed that would be chomping at the bit to finish one and prove it working. They'd be richer than God. It seems like some part of him knew it wouldn't and he preferred to enjoy the fantasy of being an unrecognized genius. Does that kind of thinking count as a belief or not? I don't think it's really clear cut. You see a similar inconsistency with religious people who "believe" they'll go to heaven when they die but they still try not to die.
0xcde4c3db 5y ago
I think there's also a tendency for the targeting of any given scam/psyop/sales pitch/etc. to make targets look foolish to non-targets. That is, the more narrowly targeted it is to bypass your bullshit filter, the more obvious it seems to someone else. So they walk away from hearing about your situation thinking that they're too smart to be fooled... only to fall for something that was designed to bypass their bullshit filter, possibly without even realizing it.
SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
>The people that >They >us How do you know “your side” is right? Read your comment again, but consider a hypothesis that you are entirely wrong about most things - how would you know? Everyone seems to lack a consideration that there is even a possibility they could be wrong. If they are exposed two sides, and you one, how do you know you are right? You probably are. But… it’s the absolutism that is starting to become obvious to me.
- Nursie 5y ago
  Humans have things called facts, science and critical thinking. With this set of tools, it is in fact possible to determine that some ideas are meritless bull. We see a proliferation of the latter right now.
  - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
    Agreed. So if you go off truthful websites like the CDC for example… oh wait, some of those links you won’t see because someone chose that for you.
    - Nursie 5y ago
      I will, because I won’t be browsing there from a social media site. Facebook isn’t the internet. It’s not even very interesting.
      - _-david-_ 5y ago
        Maybe you will see it, but many people get their news from social media. Seeing how Facebook is now censoring the CDC website (or at least a certain page) many people will not.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  While there is disinformation out there, it is rare to see completely fabricated primary sources. For example, when a bunch of news sources are saying things like the election was rigged, you can go to the published court cases and the handwritten affidavits. You can then see that 87 judges of all types totally rejected the ridiculous arguments. You can then read through about 250 pages of affidavits and see that they are nothing but vaguely racist, speculative garbage. Regarding things like the covid vaccine, you can look at the 96% vaccination rate of doctors or you can listen to basically every single immunology or virology expert. It is quite telling that pretty much the only doctors making the media rounds fear mongering about the vaccine are gastroenterologists, opthalmologists, or other unrelated fields. So no, nothing is certain, but some things are pretty close to certain.

codeecan 5y ago

If you believe "the vaccine turned people into the Hulk", thats a mental health problem. But when inconvenient claims, like "vaccines can cause blood clots in rare cases", often flagged as misinformation, you don't instil much confidence with the public. And so they go out and get information from other sources.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"If you believe "the vaccine turned people into the Hulk", thats a mental health problem." Then half the population is mentally ill. Come to think of it, that would explain a lot of issues we are dealing with...
- account42 5y ago
  Or perhaps half the popultation does not in fact believe that but you insist on putting any detractors in one bucket.
lern_too_spel 5y ago
Has "vaccines can cause blood clots in rare cases" been flagged as misinformation? I don't think it has. I get the impression that the misinformation filter is 99% accurate.
robbrown451 5y ago
There are crazy things that people believe (not necessarily vaccines turning people into the Hulk, but still) that, in the past, I would have assumed were mental health issues. But when massive numbers of people believe these things, blaming it on individual problems is not so productive. About 300 people a day are dying because intense political polarization has caused people to believe whatever best feeds their tribal urges. The same thing caused an attack on the US seat of government, and a very large percentage of the population thinks that's ok. I don't know the solution, short of us declaring that the internet and cable tv was a bad idea and we need to go back to simpler times of unconnected computers and 3 TV networks. But I'd agree that facebook, Twitter, etc has to do something.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
exporectomy 5y ago
> If you believe "the vaccine turned people into the Hulk", thats a mental health problem. Can you identify anyone who actually believes that? Keep in mind that people don't always have logically consistent beliefs, and they sometimes exaggerate their beliefs so they're not even true at all. If I really believed that claim, I would be making a bet with somebody who doesn't believe it and prove myself right by finding this hulk and asking them to punch a hole in a brick wall of flip a car over or something like that. Are there people who have put their own skin in the game like that to support that belief? If not, you're probably strawmanning.
- selcuka 5y ago
  > Can you identify anyone who actually believes that? I'm not sure if you are trolling but even though Hulk is a hypothetical example, people believe equally strange things, such as invisible microchips inside face masks, viruses being spread by 5G cell towers, that the world is flat and Australia does not exist.
  - exporectomy 5y ago
    But do they stake something of significant value on those beliefs or just say them on the internet and it's you who is incorrectly believing their claims of their beliefs to be true? People often willingly enjoy false beliefs for emotional reasons and wouldn't actually act on them if the outcome was going to materially affect them. I used to have a conversation with a crank who kept almost inventing perpetual motion machines. But every time he had nearly finished one, he somehow didn't quite do the last few steps. He talked like he believed they would work but somebody who actually believed that would be chomping at the bit to finish one and prove it working. They'd be richer than God. It seems like some part of him knew it wouldn't and he preferred to enjoy the fantasy of being an unrecognized genius. Does that kind of thinking count as a belief or not? I don't think it's really clear cut. You see a similar inconsistency with religious people who "believe" they'll go to heaven when they die but they still try not to die.

0xcde4c3db 5y ago

I think there's also a tendency for the targeting of any given scam/psyop/sales pitch/etc. to make targets look foolish to non-targets. That is, the more narrowly targeted it is to bypass your bullshit filter, the more obvious it seems to someone else. So they walk away from hearing about your situation thinking that they're too smart to be fooled... only to fall for something that was designed to bypass their bullshit filter, possibly without even realizing it.

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago

>The people that >They >us How do you know “your side” is right? Read your comment again, but consider a hypothesis that you are entirely wrong about most things - how would you know? Everyone seems to lack a consideration that there is even a possibility they could be wrong. If they are exposed two sides, and you one, how do you know you are right? You probably are. But… it’s the absolutism that is starting to become obvious to me.

Nursie 5y ago
Humans have things called facts, science and critical thinking. With this set of tools, it is in fact possible to determine that some ideas are meritless bull. We see a proliferation of the latter right now.
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  Agreed. So if you go off truthful websites like the CDC for example… oh wait, some of those links you won’t see because someone chose that for you.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    I will, because I won’t be browsing there from a social media site. Facebook isn’t the internet. It’s not even very interesting.
    - _-david-_ 5y ago
      Maybe you will see it, but many people get their news from social media. Seeing how Facebook is now censoring the CDC website (or at least a certain page) many people will not.
jjeaff 5y ago
While there is disinformation out there, it is rare to see completely fabricated primary sources. For example, when a bunch of news sources are saying things like the election was rigged, you can go to the published court cases and the handwritten affidavits. You can then see that 87 judges of all types totally rejected the ridiculous arguments. You can then read through about 250 pages of affidavits and see that they are nothing but vaguely racist, speculative garbage. Regarding things like the covid vaccine, you can look at the 96% vaccination rate of doctors or you can listen to basically every single immunology or virology expert. It is quite telling that pretty much the only doctors making the media rounds fear mongering about the vaccine are gastroenterologists, opthalmologists, or other unrelated fields. So no, nothing is certain, but some things are pretty close to certain.