4 ms·

These limits are in your favor, you are free to negotiate contracts within the limits. I fail to see how the right to work for less pay than what others see as

by tovej 5y ago

These limits are in your favor, you are free to negotiate contracts within the limits. I fail to see how the right to work for less pay than what others see as the absolute minimum fair pay is a right that's worth keeping. This is a bit like saying that criminal law takes away your right to be mugged, beaten, and murdered.

stale2002 5y ago
> you are free to negotiate contracts within the limits. So then I am not free to negotiate, and me and this other company right to engage in a mutual agreement are prevented. Yeah, that's my point. > I fail to see how the right to work for less pay I get paid way way way more money than the average unionized tech worker, where they exist. So actually, my ability to negotiate for myself, outside of the restrictions of a union, has worked out pretty darn well for me. > the absolute minimum fair pay Oh that's funny. You aren't aware that union contracts cover much more things than just a minimum wage. The whole point is that many union provisions can be bad for many people and are not strict benefits for workers.
- tovej 5y ago
  Minimum pay was an example, collectively bargained contracts offer other protections as well, but these differ more from case to case, so I didn't bring them up. I have also negotiated my pay up, but under the umbrella of collective bargaining agreements. As far as I know, you are always able to negotiate your pay up. This has worked pretty well for me as well.
  - stale2002 5y ago
    > but these differ more from case to case Ok... and thats my point. Certain union provisions are bad, for many people, and you cannot pretend that they are a universal good. > you are always able to negotiate your pay up Non-union jobs in tech pay way way more, than most union tech jobs though, and union provisions prevent certain contracts that many workers would prefer. So the actual, measurable facts show that I and many others, in non-union jobs, are doing way better than most unionized tech workers.

by tovej 5y ago

stale2002 5y ago

> you are free to negotiate contracts within the limits. So then I am not free to negotiate, and me and this other company right to engage in a mutual agreement are prevented. Yeah, that's my point. > I fail to see how the right to work for less pay I get paid way way way more money than the average unionized tech worker, where they exist. So actually, my ability to negotiate for myself, outside of the restrictions of a union, has worked out pretty darn well for me. > the absolute minimum fair pay Oh that's funny. You aren't aware that union contracts cover much more things than just a minimum wage. The whole point is that many union provisions can be bad for many people and are not strict benefits for workers.

tovej 5y ago
Minimum pay was an example, collectively bargained contracts offer other protections as well, but these differ more from case to case, so I didn't bring them up. I have also negotiated my pay up, but under the umbrella of collective bargaining agreements. As far as I know, you are always able to negotiate your pay up. This has worked pretty well for me as well.
- stale2002 5y ago
  > but these differ more from case to case Ok... and thats my point. Certain union provisions are bad, for many people, and you cannot pretend that they are a universal good. > you are always able to negotiate your pay up Non-union jobs in tech pay way way more, than most union tech jobs though, and union provisions prevent certain contracts that many workers would prefer. So the actual, measurable facts show that I and many others, in non-union jobs, are doing way better than most unionized tech workers.