6 ms·

FSD was advertised as paying for something that would come in the future - I bought it under that assumption (and so did everyone I know that has it). That was

FSD was advertised as paying for something that would come in the future - I bought it under that assumption (and so did everyone I know that has it). That was and remains true. They've continued to make progress towards it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6bOwQdCJrc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6bOwQdCJrc Autopilot is different and isn't advertised as level 5 - 'autopilot' implies fancy lane keeping not turn by turn point to point autonomy. Elon's FSD timelines were wrong - that isn't fraud. People say everything he's trying to do won't work constantly, just because they're occasionally right doesn't validate all of the times they're wrong (e.g. Model 3 is vaporware will never ship, the company is bankrupt and will close in two weeks, the Model S will never ship, gigafactory is a mistake, roadster means Musk only cares about EVs for the rich etc. etc.) If you can't tell the difference between Elon Musk and the success of Tesla and SpaceX or think it's equivalent to something like Theranos or Nikola I'm not sure what to say about that, there's just not much point in further discussion. Your pejorative use of billionaire also suggests some political element.

Robotbeat 5y ago
I think Trevor was counting on people not being able to tell the difference. They named their Tesla-competing company “Nikola,” which is a bit astounding when you think of it.
- fossuser 5y ago
  And Elizabeth Holmes wore black turtle necks - subtlety is not what they’re usually going for. Trevor does have some 30+ million dollar ranch in Utah though so I guess he did a better job of it. In Holmes case I genuinely think it didn't start as a fraud, but became one when they started lying. Not sure about Nikola.
  - cat199 5y ago
    > In Holmes case I genuinely think it didn't start as a fraud Anyone thinking you can do statistically accurate blood testing from one drop of dirty fingertip capillary blood without having already made a major scientific breakthrough is certainly not thinking straight, if not outright being fraudulent
rvz 5y ago
> FSD was advertised as paying for something that would come in the future So the software that is called 'FSD' (Full Self Driving) doesn't actually mean what is says or was advertised then? You're telling me that it doesn't mean 'Full Self Driving' or what was meant to be 'full Level 5 autonomy' which that was advertised for completion in 2019 and 2020? [0] We are in 2021. Where are the robotaxis then? [0] > If you can't tell the difference between... Irrelevant. Stay on point. I have only criticized Tesla's deceptive advertising of FSD where that poses a great safety risk of life to both the driver of the car and other drivers on the road. No where did I mention anything generally about Tesla, SpaceX or anything else since the last sentence you said was completely irrelevant. FSD does not work as advertised neither it is reliable to be used on the road and it puts the safety of the Tesla driver and others drivers at risk, even especially as it is beta software. I would not use such software in a car that confuses the moon as a yellow traffic light. [1] > Your pejorative use of billionaire also suggests some political element. ? So both Elon Musk or Trevor Milton are not billionaires? So I am not allowed to say they are billionaires? What wrong with that? It is a fact, not 'some political element'. I don't always listen to everything that they say whether if it is Milton or Musk. [0] https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-autonomous-driving-level-5-model-3-robotaxi/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-autonomous-driving-lev... [1] https://twitter.com/JordanTeslaTech/status/1418413307862585344 https://twitter.com/JordanTeslaTech/status/14184133078625853...
- fossuser 5y ago
  > So the software that is called 'FSD' (Full Self Driving) doesn't actually mean what is says or was advertised then? There is no FSD today the capability you're paying for is a future update, it used to be entirely that - now they include some extra features under FSD that aren't in base autopilot (lane changes, etc.). They've always been pretty explicit about this - the language on the site today reads: > The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates. They've also shipped more features toward this goal over time which is what they said they'd do (including a free hardware update if you had paid ahead for FSD). > We are in 2021. Where are the robotaxis then? [0] I already conceded he was wrong about timelines. > Irrelevant. Stay on point. Not irrelevant - this is the comparison we're talking about the nature of the difference between Trevor Milton and Elon Musk. If you ignore contradictory evidence because it doesn't support your position that's just cherry picking. > So I am not allowed to say they are billionaires? >> Ah yes. A certain billionaire promises... >> This billionaire in 2019, surely... Do the above quotes sound like some neutral descriptor to you?

Robotbeat 5y ago

I think Trevor was counting on people not being able to tell the difference. They named their Tesla-competing company “Nikola,” which is a bit astounding when you think of it.

fossuser 5y ago
And Elizabeth Holmes wore black turtle necks - subtlety is not what they’re usually going for. Trevor does have some 30+ million dollar ranch in Utah though so I guess he did a better job of it. In Holmes case I genuinely think it didn't start as a fraud, but became one when they started lying. Not sure about Nikola.
- cat199 5y ago
  > In Holmes case I genuinely think it didn't start as a fraud Anyone thinking you can do statistically accurate blood testing from one drop of dirty fingertip capillary blood without having already made a major scientific breakthrough is certainly not thinking straight, if not outright being fraudulent

rvz 5y ago

> FSD was advertised as paying for something that would come in the future So the software that is called 'FSD' (Full Self Driving) doesn't actually mean what is says or was advertised then? You're telling me that it doesn't mean 'Full Self Driving' or what was meant to be 'full Level 5 autonomy' which that was advertised for completion in 2019 and 2020? [0] We are in 2021. Where are the robotaxis then? [0] > If you can't tell the difference between... Irrelevant. Stay on point. I have only criticized Tesla's deceptive advertising of FSD where that poses a great safety risk of life to both the driver of the car and other drivers on the road. No where did I mention anything generally about Tesla, SpaceX or anything else since the last sentence you said was completely irrelevant. FSD does not work as advertised neither it is reliable to be used on the road and it puts the safety of the Tesla driver and others drivers at risk, even especially as it is beta software. I would not use such software in a car that confuses the moon as a yellow traffic light. [1] > Your pejorative use of billionaire also suggests some political element. ? So both Elon Musk or Trevor Milton are not billionaires? So I am not allowed to say they are billionaires? What wrong with that? It is a fact, not 'some political element'. I don't always listen to everything that they say whether if it is Milton or Musk. [0] https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-autonomous-driving-level-5-model-3-robotaxi/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-autonomous-driving-lev... [1] https://twitter.com/JordanTeslaTech/status/1418413307862585344 https://twitter.com/JordanTeslaTech/status/14184133078625853...

fossuser 5y ago
> So the software that is called 'FSD' (Full Self Driving) doesn't actually mean what is says or was advertised then? There is no FSD today the capability you're paying for is a future update, it used to be entirely that - now they include some extra features under FSD that aren't in base autopilot (lane changes, etc.). They've always been pretty explicit about this - the language on the site today reads: > The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates. They've also shipped more features toward this goal over time which is what they said they'd do (including a free hardware update if you had paid ahead for FSD). > We are in 2021. Where are the robotaxis then? [0] I already conceded he was wrong about timelines. > Irrelevant. Stay on point. Not irrelevant - this is the comparison we're talking about the nature of the difference between Trevor Milton and Elon Musk. If you ignore contradictory evidence because it doesn't support your position that's just cherry picking. > So I am not allowed to say they are billionaires? >> Ah yes. A certain billionaire promises... >> This billionaire in 2019, surely... Do the above quotes sound like some neutral descriptor to you?