4 ms·

This makes sense. A lot of stars expect a cut of box office revenues and negotiate that in. But the negotiations happened probably prior to the pandemic and t

by calmd 5y ago

This makes sense. A lot of stars expect a cut of box office revenues and negotiate that in. But the negotiations happened probably prior to the pandemic and the new situation probably was unthinkable. Also the box office in general has been destroyed recently because of the pandemic. What would have likely been $+150M opening weekends and close to $1B totals revenue (or even more) are reduced to fractions of that. EDIT: Even worse, it was actually to be released in May 2020, thus the negotiations for salary were likely done in 2017/2018 or possibly earlier. Disney+ wasn't even announced back then.

DerDangDerDang 5y ago
Orange site bad.
- calmd 5y ago
  Disney+ with 100M active subs is completely different than minor streaming services before that.
  - anigbrowl 5y ago
    And there is nobody in Hollywood that wouldn't have anticipated that. Disney is the Microsoft of the movie world - an extremely aggressive company with a track record of dominating or being a major player in any market it chooses to compete in.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      Of course, no one commenting here, especially me, knows. Obviously, they knew about streaming when negotiating the contract and may have even anticipated it might be big. But it's at least possible that they did not anticipate that Disney might release a film in one of their tentpole franchises at the same time as in theaters. Or, more likely, the tried to get Disney to commit to a specific box office exclusivity window and Disney refused and/or offered something different in exchange which, in the absence of a pandemic, looked better by comparison.
      - anigbrowl 5y ago
        I used to work in the movie industry and (other than at the very bottom quasi-amateur indie film level) most people in the industry understand this stuff really well. There are two daily newspapers that just serve the film and TV industry and 75% of the content is about who is making or breaking deals and what the legal and economic implications are. Don't forget that the industry wen through this cycle many times already, from verticals (studios owning theater chains), to TV, to home video, to DVD, to streaming etc. etc. Decisions and litigation like this are often not based on the merits at all. They're poker games in which the bets are the amount of litigation expenses people are willing to bear. Dis ney might look at this and think 'Scarlett Johanssen could easily win this case, but she's probably not willing to spend more than $10 million on legal fees over a period longer than 5 years. Maybe it's worth putting in $20 million on legal fees at our end because we stand to gain $1 billion over the same period by having a stronger bargaining position in other negotiations.' Scarlett Johansson could walk out of any future business with Disney and still be a big star and make money with other studios. She has legions of fans that will keep her a star for as long as she wants to keep acting. But will it hurt Disney to make an enemy of her? Probably not at all. However, caving in a contract dispute makes them look less powerful in all future negotiations. Contrary to the message their movies convey to the public, within the industry Disney much prefers to be feared rather than loved.
- johannes1234321 5y ago
  only in 2019 the Netflix contract ran out making it possible for them to use the full Disney catalogue while reducing access for Netflix. Thus creating a competitive product. Only in 2020 they launched in Europe.
gnicholas 5y ago
> But the negotiations happened probably prior to the pandemic and the new situation probably was unthinkable. Apparently Warner dealt with this unexpected issue differently: > WarnerMedia chose to renegotiate many of its talent contracts that, like Ms. Johansson’s deal with Marvel, were tied to box-office performance. Warner Bros. paid more than $200 million to talent as part of the amended agreements.
anigbrowl 5y ago
Not hard at all, actually. All stars have very savvy agents and lawyers, and the movie industry has always been a cutthroat business. Don't let the glitz and glamor blind you to the fact that it is an industry which selects for people who work very long hours and drive hard bargains, at every level. Every professional contract I've ever seen contemplates expansion into future media and markets; it's a technology driven business that has to follow customers to where they are going, and industry lawyers are fully aware that if studios or production companies had the option, most of them would happily relocate to the Moon or Mars to avoid paying out, while maintaining an office on earth to litigate their own copyright interests.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Wasn't it Lucas or someone who was famous for negotiating ongoing rights / IP ownership, when the studio (in retrospect) drastically undervalued them?
  - vidanay 5y ago
    Sylvester Stallone was one of the first actors to negotiate a fraction of gross revenue and rights (for Rocky). edit: I heared the above several times over the years, but it appears it may not be true: https://www.businessinsider.com/sylvester-stallone-on-never-getting-ownership-of-rocky-franchise-2019-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/sylvester-stallone-on-never-...
  - Joeboy 5y ago
    Alec Guinness made a lot of money by negotiating a percentage instead of a fee.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > Wasn't it Lucas or someone who was famous for negotiating ongoing rights / IP ownership, when the studio (in retrospect) drastically undervalued them? IIRC, it was merchandising rights. Sales of the Star Wars action figures were huge, and my understanding kind of unprecedented.
- gnicholas 5y ago

by calmd 5y ago

DerDangDerDang 5y ago

Orange site bad.

calmd 5y ago
Disney+ with 100M active subs is completely different than minor streaming services before that.
- anigbrowl 5y ago
  And there is nobody in Hollywood that wouldn't have anticipated that. Disney is the Microsoft of the movie world - an extremely aggressive company with a track record of dominating or being a major player in any market it chooses to compete in.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Of course, no one commenting here, especially me, knows. Obviously, they knew about streaming when negotiating the contract and may have even anticipated it might be big. But it's at least possible that they did not anticipate that Disney might release a film in one of their tentpole franchises at the same time as in theaters. Or, more likely, the tried to get Disney to commit to a specific box office exclusivity window and Disney refused and/or offered something different in exchange which, in the absence of a pandemic, looked better by comparison.
    - anigbrowl 5y ago
      I used to work in the movie industry and (other than at the very bottom quasi-amateur indie film level) most people in the industry understand this stuff really well. There are two daily newspapers that just serve the film and TV industry and 75% of the content is about who is making or breaking deals and what the legal and economic implications are. Don't forget that the industry wen through this cycle many times already, from verticals (studios owning theater chains), to TV, to home video, to DVD, to streaming etc. etc. Decisions and litigation like this are often not based on the merits at all. They're poker games in which the bets are the amount of litigation expenses people are willing to bear. Dis ney might look at this and think 'Scarlett Johanssen could easily win this case, but she's probably not willing to spend more than $10 million on legal fees over a period longer than 5 years. Maybe it's worth putting in $20 million on legal fees at our end because we stand to gain $1 billion over the same period by having a stronger bargaining position in other negotiations.' Scarlett Johansson could walk out of any future business with Disney and still be a big star and make money with other studios. She has legions of fans that will keep her a star for as long as she wants to keep acting. But will it hurt Disney to make an enemy of her? Probably not at all. However, caving in a contract dispute makes them look less powerful in all future negotiations. Contrary to the message their movies convey to the public, within the industry Disney much prefers to be feared rather than loved.
johannes1234321 5y ago
only in 2019 the Netflix contract ran out making it possible for them to use the full Disney catalogue while reducing access for Netflix. Thus creating a competitive product. Only in 2020 they launched in Europe.

gnicholas 5y ago

> But the negotiations happened probably prior to the pandemic and the new situation probably was unthinkable. Apparently Warner dealt with this unexpected issue differently: > WarnerMedia chose to renegotiate many of its talent contracts that, like Ms. Johansson’s deal with Marvel, were tied to box-office performance. Warner Bros. paid more than $200 million to talent as part of the amended agreements.

anigbrowl 5y ago

Not hard at all, actually. All stars have very savvy agents and lawyers, and the movie industry has always been a cutthroat business. Don't let the glitz and glamor blind you to the fact that it is an industry which selects for people who work very long hours and drive hard bargains, at every level. Every professional contract I've ever seen contemplates expansion into future media and markets; it's a technology driven business that has to follow customers to where they are going, and industry lawyers are fully aware that if studios or production companies had the option, most of them would happily relocate to the Moon or Mars to avoid paying out, while maintaining an office on earth to litigate their own copyright interests.

ethbr0 5y ago
Wasn't it Lucas or someone who was famous for negotiating ongoing rights / IP ownership, when the studio (in retrospect) drastically undervalued them?
- vidanay 5y ago
  Sylvester Stallone was one of the first actors to negotiate a fraction of gross revenue and rights (for Rocky). edit: I heared the above several times over the years, but it appears it may not be true: https://www.businessinsider.com/sylvester-stallone-on-never-getting-ownership-of-rocky-franchise-2019-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/sylvester-stallone-on-never-...
- Joeboy 5y ago
  Alec Guinness made a lot of money by negotiating a percentage instead of a fee.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Wasn't it Lucas or someone who was famous for negotiating ongoing rights / IP ownership, when the studio (in retrospect) drastically undervalued them? IIRC, it was merchandising rights. Sales of the Star Wars action figures were huge, and my understanding kind of unprecedented.
gnicholas 5y ago