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I just don't understand how the government postponed evictions without paying landlords. Can you just tell people they don't have to work while forcing companie

I just don't understand how the government postponed evictions without paying landlords. Can you just tell people they don't have to work while forcing companies to pay employees? Etc it's just bizarre. I feel for the people who needed these protections, but also recognize the people on the other side of the coin who have mortgages, utilities, etc.

Cshelton 5y ago
It's much worse than you realize. Most of these rentals are cash flows that pay the debt service on a loan. Which most of the time is securitized. Those securities are packaged up (sound familiar...?) and sold to investors. Who are these investors you ask? Mostly institutional investors who are responsible for.. your retirement, pensions, etc. So it's not the "rich landlord" that doesn't get his rent money, it's your next door neighbor who is a retired teacher living off the teachers pension.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  How are school districts going to escape their contractual obligations to unions? By going into bankruptcy? Where are you getting this information that school districts may seriously renege on pension contracts?
  - kamaal 5y ago
    >>Where are you getting this information that school districts may seriously renege on pension contracts? Pensions are either from taxes(Now who is going to pay that on properties where people stay for free?), or from profits made in investments in larger economy. Where do the profits come from? People who borrow money to run businesses(which now have no profits, and are running on losses because people stay for free). Read that all in reverse. The effects will be felt all over the economy.
r00fus 5y ago
We funded the military to the tune of $800B but can't be bothered to keep people from falling into poverty due to inability to work (tenants) or bankruptcy (landlords). Most other nations had much stronger safety nets than a few one-time payments of a few hundred dollars. Quite a set of priorities are on display here.
- johncessna 5y ago
  The US spends more on social programs than it does on the military.
  - r00fus 5y ago
    Social security don't count - we pay for that ourselves. What else?
    - johncessna 5y ago
      Sure it does. Most of what the feds spend is from money we give them. Here's the breakout of the 2020 budget in picture form. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/media/File:2020_US_Federal_Budget_Infographic.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/...
- tastyfreeze 5y ago
  Military is one of the few jobs the federal government is Constitutionally obligated to perform. As another reply said, we spend more on welfare programs. Programs which the federal government is not Constitutionally permitted to do.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - evanb 5y ago
    “Promote the general Welfare” comes immediately after “provide for the common defense” in literally the first sentence of the constitution.
jeffbee 5y ago
The federal government has broad emergency powers to prevent the spread of infectious diseases, and for other kinds of emergencies like civil defense etc. The powers are extremely broad with language like "such actions as may be appropriate". You should note that the federal eviction orders side-step some legal issues because they don't absolve tenants of their rents, they just delayed their evictions if they don't pay them. So, technically the order hasn't impaired the rents owed to the landlords.
- darkarmani 5y ago
  > So, technically the order hasn't impaired the rents owed to the landlords. It hasn't impaired them? Owning an obligation is much worse than owning the cash. If someone didn't pay rent for 9 months, landlords might never see that money. When they could evict, they might only eat 3 months of losses, now they will have 9-12 months of losses. The owners are basically paying "rent" (debt service), so freeloaders can live there. If anything, a chunk of relief money to renters should have been debt vouchers to their landlords that can redeem them for cash from the gov't. The gov't can then get repaid through federal tax returns. (or forgive them as a benefit)
- mikem170 5y ago
  > The federal government has broad emergency powers to prevent the spread of infectious diseases The supreme court said the CDC exceeded their statutory authority [0]: > As he often does, Kavanaugh wrote to explain why he voted to allow the moratorium to remain in place. On the one hand, he said he agreed with the District Court that the CDC exceeded its statutory authority by issuing a nationwide moratorium. > But, he said, because the CDC has said it will end the moratorium in a few weeks he would allow it to remain in place. He said the extra weeks will "allow for additional and more orderly distribution of the congressionally appropriated rental assistance funds." > Kavanaugh made clear however, that if the government were to extend the moratorium past July 31, it would need "specific congressional authorization." So it sounds like the eviction moratorium was illegal. [0] https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/eviction-moratorium-expiring-saturday-biden-calls-congress-act/story?id=79142644 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/eviction-moratorium-expiring...
njarboe 5y ago
California decided to pay peoples' back rent recently. I'd guess the people that made sacrifices to keep paying rent instead of YOLOing it on call options are a bit miffed that they kept paying, but at least the California government is using some of its Fed pandemic money to pay the landlords that were forced to provide free housing.
- epicureanideal 5y ago
  Yeah, I wish the government would stop pumping up the moral hazard. Basically responsible action is punished and YOLOing is rewarded… until some unknown date when it suddenly isn’t.
  - burnished 5y ago
    Of the people who couldn't afford, how many do you think were YOLOing as opposed to just plain old screwed? Basically, why focus on fictional people that are living in a way you find morally dubious, instead of the very real people living below the poverty line and struggling to keep a roof over their head?
    - epicureanideal 5y ago
      Anecdotally I've heard from plenty of people that they have strategies like putting minimum down on a house so they can walk away from it if the market crashes, as a lesson from 06-07. I suspect plenty of people learned lessons from the last crash about moral hazard and are doing whatever they can, for example not paying rent as long as possible just because they can, and then when the crash happens they'll buy a house or meanwhile it might be in Robinhood. The poor aren't stupid. They can figure out schemes and strategies just as well as Wall Street, they just have less opportunity in most circumstances.
      - burnished 5y ago
        You're talking to people who can put a down payment on a house. I question if we're talking about the same groups of people. That wouldn't fit my own internal standard for 'poor', you know?
flatiron 5y ago
If they had paid do the tenants still owe? If they do does the land lord get double the money if they pay or do they owe it back? As a tenant what would stop me from not paying knowing my landlord still gets the check or work out a deal with them that I “don’t pay” and slide them 50% my rent in cash. It’s a tricky thing to tackle!
- betterunix2 5y ago
  The tenants would owe the government, and Congress or whoever could decide how to deal with it after the pandemic ends.
ViViDboarder 5y ago
Lots of people lost income. The government also did things like postponement on mortgages and foreclosure. Are there cases of landlords losing their properties because they couldn’t evict someone during a (hopefully) once in a lifetime public health crisis?

Cshelton 5y ago

It's much worse than you realize. Most of these rentals are cash flows that pay the debt service on a loan. Which most of the time is securitized. Those securities are packaged up (sound familiar...?) and sold to investors. Who are these investors you ask? Mostly institutional investors who are responsible for.. your retirement, pensions, etc. So it's not the "rich landlord" that doesn't get his rent money, it's your next door neighbor who is a retired teacher living off the teachers pension.

threatofrain 5y ago
How are school districts going to escape their contractual obligations to unions? By going into bankruptcy? Where are you getting this information that school districts may seriously renege on pension contracts?
- kamaal 5y ago
  >>Where are you getting this information that school districts may seriously renege on pension contracts? Pensions are either from taxes(Now who is going to pay that on properties where people stay for free?), or from profits made in investments in larger economy. Where do the profits come from? People who borrow money to run businesses(which now have no profits, and are running on losses because people stay for free). Read that all in reverse. The effects will be felt all over the economy.

r00fus 5y ago

We funded the military to the tune of $800B but can't be bothered to keep people from falling into poverty due to inability to work (tenants) or bankruptcy (landlords). Most other nations had much stronger safety nets than a few one-time payments of a few hundred dollars. Quite a set of priorities are on display here.

johncessna 5y ago
The US spends more on social programs than it does on the military.
- r00fus 5y ago
  Social security don't count - we pay for that ourselves. What else?
  - johncessna 5y ago
    Sure it does. Most of what the feds spend is from money we give them. Here's the breakout of the 2020 budget in picture form. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/media/File:2020_US_Federal_Budget_Infographic.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/...
tastyfreeze 5y ago
Military is one of the few jobs the federal government is Constitutionally obligated to perform. As another reply said, we spend more on welfare programs. Programs which the federal government is not Constitutionally permitted to do.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- evanb 5y ago
  “Promote the general Welfare” comes immediately after “provide for the common defense” in literally the first sentence of the constitution.

jeffbee 5y ago

The federal government has broad emergency powers to prevent the spread of infectious diseases, and for other kinds of emergencies like civil defense etc. The powers are extremely broad with language like "such actions as may be appropriate". You should note that the federal eviction orders side-step some legal issues because they don't absolve tenants of their rents, they just delayed their evictions if they don't pay them. So, technically the order hasn't impaired the rents owed to the landlords.

darkarmani 5y ago
> So, technically the order hasn't impaired the rents owed to the landlords. It hasn't impaired them? Owning an obligation is much worse than owning the cash. If someone didn't pay rent for 9 months, landlords might never see that money. When they could evict, they might only eat 3 months of losses, now they will have 9-12 months of losses. The owners are basically paying "rent" (debt service), so freeloaders can live there. If anything, a chunk of relief money to renters should have been debt vouchers to their landlords that can redeem them for cash from the gov't. The gov't can then get repaid through federal tax returns. (or forgive them as a benefit)
mikem170 5y ago
> The federal government has broad emergency powers to prevent the spread of infectious diseases The supreme court said the CDC exceeded their statutory authority [0]: > As he often does, Kavanaugh wrote to explain why he voted to allow the moratorium to remain in place. On the one hand, he said he agreed with the District Court that the CDC exceeded its statutory authority by issuing a nationwide moratorium. > But, he said, because the CDC has said it will end the moratorium in a few weeks he would allow it to remain in place. He said the extra weeks will "allow for additional and more orderly distribution of the congressionally appropriated rental assistance funds." > Kavanaugh made clear however, that if the government were to extend the moratorium past July 31, it would need "specific congressional authorization." So it sounds like the eviction moratorium was illegal. [0] https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/eviction-moratorium-expiring-saturday-biden-calls-congress-act/story?id=79142644 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/eviction-moratorium-expiring...

njarboe 5y ago

California decided to pay peoples' back rent recently. I'd guess the people that made sacrifices to keep paying rent instead of YOLOing it on call options are a bit miffed that they kept paying, but at least the California government is using some of its Fed pandemic money to pay the landlords that were forced to provide free housing.

epicureanideal 5y ago
Yeah, I wish the government would stop pumping up the moral hazard. Basically responsible action is punished and YOLOing is rewarded… until some unknown date when it suddenly isn’t.
- burnished 5y ago
  Of the people who couldn't afford, how many do you think were YOLOing as opposed to just plain old screwed? Basically, why focus on fictional people that are living in a way you find morally dubious, instead of the very real people living below the poverty line and struggling to keep a roof over their head?
  - epicureanideal 5y ago
    Anecdotally I've heard from plenty of people that they have strategies like putting minimum down on a house so they can walk away from it if the market crashes, as a lesson from 06-07. I suspect plenty of people learned lessons from the last crash about moral hazard and are doing whatever they can, for example not paying rent as long as possible just because they can, and then when the crash happens they'll buy a house or meanwhile it might be in Robinhood. The poor aren't stupid. They can figure out schemes and strategies just as well as Wall Street, they just have less opportunity in most circumstances.
    - burnished 5y ago
      You're talking to people who can put a down payment on a house. I question if we're talking about the same groups of people. That wouldn't fit my own internal standard for 'poor', you know?

flatiron 5y ago

If they had paid do the tenants still owe? If they do does the land lord get double the money if they pay or do they owe it back? As a tenant what would stop me from not paying knowing my landlord still gets the check or work out a deal with them that I “don’t pay” and slide them 50% my rent in cash. It’s a tricky thing to tackle!

betterunix2 5y ago
The tenants would owe the government, and Congress or whoever could decide how to deal with it after the pandemic ends.

ViViDboarder 5y ago

Lots of people lost income. The government also did things like postponement on mortgages and foreclosure. Are there cases of landlords losing their properties because they couldn’t evict someone during a (hopefully) once in a lifetime public health crisis?