3 ms·

Cars are somewhat taken for granted in their ability to work in a wide temperature gamut, so I think improving extreme cold performance is something needed to m

by ehnto 5y ago

Cars are somewhat taken for granted in their ability to work in a wide temperature gamut, so I think improving extreme cold performance is something needed to make sure they stay on par or outperform internal combustion engines. As well, heavy industries around the world are looking at ways to electrify their fleets of vehicles working in remote sometimes extreme weather sites. This includes mining sites and marine operations, even consider that airplanes are an eventual target for EV. Also, charge speed is would surely be the number one gripe for EV ownership, range and performance is pretty much comparable to modern ICE but charge speed, not even close.

kwhitefoot 5y ago
> charge speed is would surely be the number one gripe for EV ownership As far as I can tell this mostly only a concern among those who do not own an EV.
- steveBK123 5y ago
  Yes, exactly. It's the big bugbear of non-EV owners, but generally irrelevant to actual EV owners. Charger network size, reliability, locations, and pricing matters more. I am also not amongst the superhumans on the internet who can drive 300mi without my bladder/stomach/legs crying out for a break first. Being in NYC, the first hour of every trip is at 20mph, the second hour is average about 50mph, and then only if I am going beyond 70mi do I start to hit average speed about 60mph. Supercharging for ~100mi on the highway is a parallel operation to your bathroom/food break, so its 10 minutes you were already going to use. Gas fill ups are 5 minute serial operations that you either do before or after using the rest area. I suppose if you were on a cannonball run, you could pee in a bottle while pumping gas but I think we can exclude that edge case.
  - mrfusion 5y ago
    I hadn’t thought of that point before. You really can’t leave while pumping gas. So electric charging time is more productive.
ajross 5y ago
Cars are also active devices with comparatively rapid cycle times that can spend a little energy to heat the batteries. EV batteries don't need to stay cold for very long, basically. Note that, contra the way it's often explained, cold batteries lose capacity, not energy. If you take a full battery and put it in the freezer, you'll be unable to drain the full charge but it'll come back when it warms up. Think about it: the back of an envelope will show you that if that energy were actually being "lost" from a cold battery, then the battery must actually be very, very hot, because the energy would have had to go somewhere.
steveBK123 5y ago
Everyone has different use cases, but moving to a marketplace with a variety of cell types & corresponding tradeoffs (high range/moderate charge rate vs moderate range/high charge rate, etc) would be great. Less temperature sensitivity to the range & charge rate would be a huge win. Otherwise, personally charge rate hasn't been much of a problem because I'm not a big road tripper & have a charger at home. 300mi+ battery means I can drive 2 hours to see my parents & back 2 hours without charging, or drive down 4 hours to see my sister.. which means I'm going to be stopping along the way anyway, and charge 100mi+ while in the rest stop using the restroom, or more if I get a coffee or lunch. In everyday driving, charge at home off-peak starting 11pm, then its basically irrelevant whether I can unplug at 11:30pm vs 3am. Charging an EV takes longer, but generally its either at home or at a place you are already doing something else - shopping at Target, getting a coffee at Starbucks, making a pit stop on the highway, etc. Few regular EV drivers just sit in their car for 20min staring into space while they charge.

by ehnto 5y ago

kwhitefoot 5y ago

> charge speed is would surely be the number one gripe for EV ownership As far as I can tell this mostly only a concern among those who do not own an EV.

steveBK123 5y ago
Yes, exactly. It's the big bugbear of non-EV owners, but generally irrelevant to actual EV owners. Charger network size, reliability, locations, and pricing matters more. I am also not amongst the superhumans on the internet who can drive 300mi without my bladder/stomach/legs crying out for a break first. Being in NYC, the first hour of every trip is at 20mph, the second hour is average about 50mph, and then only if I am going beyond 70mi do I start to hit average speed about 60mph. Supercharging for ~100mi on the highway is a parallel operation to your bathroom/food break, so its 10 minutes you were already going to use. Gas fill ups are 5 minute serial operations that you either do before or after using the rest area. I suppose if you were on a cannonball run, you could pee in a bottle while pumping gas but I think we can exclude that edge case.
- mrfusion 5y ago
  I hadn’t thought of that point before. You really can’t leave while pumping gas. So electric charging time is more productive.

ajross 5y ago

Cars are also active devices with comparatively rapid cycle times that can spend a little energy to heat the batteries. EV batteries don't need to stay cold for very long, basically. Note that, contra the way it's often explained, cold batteries lose capacity, not energy. If you take a full battery and put it in the freezer, you'll be unable to drain the full charge but it'll come back when it warms up. Think about it: the back of an envelope will show you that if that energy were actually being "lost" from a cold battery, then the battery must actually be very, very hot, because the energy would have had to go somewhere.

steveBK123 5y ago

Everyone has different use cases, but moving to a marketplace with a variety of cell types & corresponding tradeoffs (high range/moderate charge rate vs moderate range/high charge rate, etc) would be great. Less temperature sensitivity to the range & charge rate would be a huge win. Otherwise, personally charge rate hasn't been much of a problem because I'm not a big road tripper & have a charger at home. 300mi+ battery means I can drive 2 hours to see my parents & back 2 hours without charging, or drive down 4 hours to see my sister.. which means I'm going to be stopping along the way anyway, and charge 100mi+ while in the rest stop using the restroom, or more if I get a coffee or lunch. In everyday driving, charge at home off-peak starting 11pm, then its basically irrelevant whether I can unplug at 11:30pm vs 3am. Charging an EV takes longer, but generally its either at home or at a place you are already doing something else - shopping at Target, getting a coffee at Starbucks, making a pit stop on the highway, etc. Few regular EV drivers just sit in their car for 20min staring into space while they charge.