4 ms·

ISO should make all standards Publicly Available

70 points by yboris 5y ago

a_square_peg 5y ago
This would be so welcomed - it almost seems like the idea of paying for standards goes against the spirit of standardization and also prevent wider adoption. Imagine if we had to pay to pay to read the precise definition of kg.
- failwhaleshark 5y ago
  It's a similar scam as academic journals. Gatekeeping knowledge for profit.
jonathaneunice 5y ago
If you want wide standardization, share the specifications. Erecting a paywall around standards is the antithesis of promulgation. Have run into "documentation for the standard costs $$" many times over the years in different organizations, large and small; it is always a barrier to adoption.
moralestapia 5y ago
It's a real bummer when a public organization (like the government) demands ISO-compliance on something as they're only putting another brick in their profit wall. And they can be quite expensive, at $100 or so /each, sometimes you deal with a bunch of standards from the same category and have to pay $1000s just to be able to read them. Complete nonsense.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  Choosing at random I found ISO 105 Textiles — Tests for colour fastness It has about 100 sub standards, and per the ISO website each one costs ~50 USD, or $5,000. Just for one aspect of working with textiles. Maybe it's less if your buy the entire ISO 105 block? I didn't see it listed. Either way, it seems very expensive to be ISO compliant.
  - moralestapia 5y ago
    Yup, for a recent project we needed to comply with some environmental norms and ended up spending about 2k. It's usury.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
This is probably in place to fund the ISO organizations and test equipment maintenance and upgrades, the documents could be made free to access if governments agreed to maintain funding tied to technology costs etc. It would be a useful part of the UN maybe?
- atonse 5y ago
  This feels like the right solution. ISO probably isn’t properly funded.
leoedin 5y ago
I'm glad this is getting attention. These ISO standards are legislation in a lot of countries. If you wish to sell a product which falls under their remit you are legally required to be compliant But the only way to know you're compliant is to give the standards body hundreds of £/€/$ to read the standard. And then it references another standard which you also need to buy. Etc. Etc. If you actually follow all the references you could easily spend thousands on standards alone, just to design and sell something legally.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > These ISO standards are legislation in a lot of countries Sometimes legislation references/incorporates ISO standards. The legislature involved should then be responsible for making the standard free.
bradknowles 5y ago
How else would ISO make the “beelions” of dollars they need to fund the Universe? Oh, sorry. They don’t need to fund the Universe, they’re supposedly an NGO for setting international standards that is funded by the governments around the world, right? And they shouldn’t need “beelions” of dollars to do that, right? Seriously, the whole funding/cost structure of the ISO is something that has annoyed me for decades. But I don’t see this situation changing any time soon — if ever.
JimTheMan 5y ago
I completely agree. As a mechanical engineer it makes my blood boil when I cannot access a standard. It's rent seeking at best. Sure my organisation pays for many of the subscriptions, but not infrequently I come across one that isn't and it immediately stymies my work. I have to contact the bureaucracy and convince them to spend $500+ on something that may be completely useless. (it's sometimes unclear how useful or strict a referenced standard is) I can only imagine how hard it would be for the general public to navigate. The European Union has publicly available engineering standards. That is a step in the right direction and every country(or federation) should follow suit.
joshxyz 5y ago
Ah, reminds me of that date-time issues between RFC and ISO standards.
fithisux 5y ago
I agree completely.

70 points by yboris 5y ago

This would be so welcomed - it almost seems like the idea of paying for standards goes against the spirit of standardization and also prevent wider adoption. Imagine if we had to pay to pay to read the precise definition of kg.

failwhaleshark 5y ago
It's a similar scam as academic journals. Gatekeeping knowledge for profit.

jonathaneunice 5y ago

If you want wide standardization, share the specifications. Erecting a paywall around standards is the antithesis of promulgation. Have run into "documentation for the standard costs $$" many times over the years in different organizations, large and small; it is always a barrier to adoption.

moralestapia 5y ago

It's a real bummer when a public organization (like the government) demands ISO-compliance on something as they're only putting another brick in their profit wall. And they can be quite expensive, at $100 or so /each, sometimes you deal with a bunch of standards from the same category and have to pay $1000s just to be able to read them. Complete nonsense.

ineedasername 5y ago
Choosing at random I found ISO 105 Textiles — Tests for colour fastness It has about 100 sub standards, and per the ISO website each one costs ~50 USD, or $5,000. Just for one aspect of working with textiles. Maybe it's less if your buy the entire ISO 105 block? I didn't see it listed. Either way, it seems very expensive to be ISO compliant.
- moralestapia 5y ago
  Yup, for a recent project we needed to comply with some environmental norms and ended up spending about 2k. It's usury.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

This is probably in place to fund the ISO organizations and test equipment maintenance and upgrades, the documents could be made free to access if governments agreed to maintain funding tied to technology costs etc. It would be a useful part of the UN maybe?

atonse 5y ago
This feels like the right solution. ISO probably isn’t properly funded.

leoedin 5y ago

I'm glad this is getting attention. These ISO standards are legislation in a lot of countries. If you wish to sell a product which falls under their remit you are legally required to be compliant But the only way to know you're compliant is to give the standards body hundreds of £/€/$ to read the standard. And then it references another standard which you also need to buy. Etc. Etc. If you actually follow all the references you could easily spend thousands on standards alone, just to design and sell something legally.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> These ISO standards are legislation in a lot of countries Sometimes legislation references/incorporates ISO standards. The legislature involved should then be responsible for making the standard free.

bradknowles 5y ago

How else would ISO make the “beelions” of dollars they need to fund the Universe? Oh, sorry. They don’t need to fund the Universe, they’re supposedly an NGO for setting international standards that is funded by the governments around the world, right? And they shouldn’t need “beelions” of dollars to do that, right? Seriously, the whole funding/cost structure of the ISO is something that has annoyed me for decades. But I don’t see this situation changing any time soon — if ever.

JimTheMan 5y ago

I completely agree. As a mechanical engineer it makes my blood boil when I cannot access a standard. It's rent seeking at best. Sure my organisation pays for many of the subscriptions, but not infrequently I come across one that isn't and it immediately stymies my work. I have to contact the bureaucracy and convince them to spend $500+ on something that may be completely useless. (it's sometimes unclear how useful or strict a referenced standard is) I can only imagine how hard it would be for the general public to navigate. The European Union has publicly available engineering standards. That is a step in the right direction and every country(or federation) should follow suit.

joshxyz 5y ago

Ah, reminds me of that date-time issues between RFC and ISO standards.

fithisux 5y ago

I agree completely.