3 ms·

With the number of companies (from Tesla to Chevrolet) with large volumes actual EVs sold and on the road, I don't see how Nikola has a head start?

ethbr0 5y ago
Popular opinion around EV tech is approaching PowerPC-era Mac apologists. "Yes, it's less performant, but it has {insert special, unmeasurable and/or unproven magic here}."
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  (Oh, this is fun! I haven't done this in a looooong time!) Unmeasurable? Like, you would have had to run an actual editing, encoding, rendering, or simulation task to measure it, but you only had the skills to read how many GHz were on the box, so you personally were unable to measure it? I suppose I'd have to hand you that one. How well did the "clock speed is all that matters" rhetoric age over the last decade? When was the last time that Intel's claimed perf boost wasn't IPC driven? My favorite part of this story is fifteen years later, when Intel's CEO says: We have to deliver better products to the PC ecosystem than any possible thing that a lifestyle company in Cupertino makes LOOOOOOOL! Whipped at CPU design (and manufacture -- who pays for those new kingmaking TSMC nodes?) by a company that doesn't even specialize in it. Whipped so badly that they have to admit it, even to themselves. Ouch!
- simondotau 5y ago
  That's not really a good analogy. Every interesting technology has its share of unhinged fanpeople. And it's not interesting to judge a technology by the behaviour of its fans. There's only one real Achilles heel of EV tech and it's a big one—the limited supply (and the consequent high price) of batteries. If there was an unlimited supply of battery cells at a low price, EVs would be generally superior to comparable ICE vehicles in core objective metrics. There are numerous secondary limitations of EVs, such as the availability of charging facilities where they are needed. But this class of problem is directly aligned with uptake. They solve themselves as more EVs are adopted and market share increases.
tenpies 5y ago
Nikola is probably at the same stage - if not ahead - of Tesla when it comes to trucks. How much would a Tesla with only prototype Semis and a factory under construction be valued at? About $5 BB actually sounds quite right, maybe even undervalued depending on cultist zealotry and SEC enforcement levels.
- detaro 5y ago
  Has Nikola prototypes that can actually drive by now? From a quick look, there seems to be suspiciously little mention of that, despite there being a clear motivation for them to widely promote that after the video scandal broke last year?
- frockington1 5y ago
  Ford is the obvious leader for electric trucks, what does Nikola have that For doesn't?
- yourenotsmart 5y ago
  > Nikola is probably at the same stage - if not ahead - of Tesla when it comes to trucks. See, this level of misinformation is a big reason the company even exists yet. Tesla has been selling EVs for years now, and has prototyped their own trucks based on their own existing drivetrain, battery pack IP, software. What Nikola has, when we remove the fraudulent claims, is a prototype built by Iveco, with zero substantial IP from Nikola. To say Nikola is at the same stage of Tesla is not even wrong. They've never built a working truck in their entire existence. Their "stage" is at a super position from nothing to infinity, as long as you don't look, and no one has ever been allowed to look, at the risk of getting a dead cat.
- bagels 5y ago
  There is no way this is true. Tesla has functional factories for batteries for one.
xkjkls 5y ago
Nikola has focused on some substantially different segments of the EV market than they have. Nikola has focused on the trucking market, rather than the consumer car market, which at least is different from many of its competitors
- rhizome 5y ago
  Trucking you can still kill people. You know who I'd like to hear about? The company making self-loading and unloading shipping containers. Now that, I bet, is an achievable goal.

ethbr0 5y ago

Popular opinion around EV tech is approaching PowerPC-era Mac apologists. "Yes, it's less performant, but it has {insert special, unmeasurable and/or unproven magic here}."

jjoonathan 5y ago
(Oh, this is fun! I haven't done this in a looooong time!) Unmeasurable? Like, you would have had to run an actual editing, encoding, rendering, or simulation task to measure it, but you only had the skills to read how many GHz were on the box, so you personally were unable to measure it? I suppose I'd have to hand you that one. How well did the "clock speed is all that matters" rhetoric age over the last decade? When was the last time that Intel's claimed perf boost wasn't IPC driven? My favorite part of this story is fifteen years later, when Intel's CEO says: We have to deliver better products to the PC ecosystem than any possible thing that a lifestyle company in Cupertino makes LOOOOOOOL! Whipped at CPU design (and manufacture -- who pays for those new kingmaking TSMC nodes?) by a company that doesn't even specialize in it. Whipped so badly that they have to admit it, even to themselves. Ouch!
simondotau 5y ago
That's not really a good analogy. Every interesting technology has its share of unhinged fanpeople. And it's not interesting to judge a technology by the behaviour of its fans. There's only one real Achilles heel of EV tech and it's a big one—the limited supply (and the consequent high price) of batteries. If there was an unlimited supply of battery cells at a low price, EVs would be generally superior to comparable ICE vehicles in core objective metrics. There are numerous secondary limitations of EVs, such as the availability of charging facilities where they are needed. But this class of problem is directly aligned with uptake. They solve themselves as more EVs are adopted and market share increases.

tenpies 5y ago

Nikola is probably at the same stage - if not ahead - of Tesla when it comes to trucks. How much would a Tesla with only prototype Semis and a factory under construction be valued at? About $5 BB actually sounds quite right, maybe even undervalued depending on cultist zealotry and SEC enforcement levels.

detaro 5y ago
Has Nikola prototypes that can actually drive by now? From a quick look, there seems to be suspiciously little mention of that, despite there being a clear motivation for them to widely promote that after the video scandal broke last year?
frockington1 5y ago
Ford is the obvious leader for electric trucks, what does Nikola have that For doesn't?
yourenotsmart 5y ago
> Nikola is probably at the same stage - if not ahead - of Tesla when it comes to trucks. See, this level of misinformation is a big reason the company even exists yet. Tesla has been selling EVs for years now, and has prototyped their own trucks based on their own existing drivetrain, battery pack IP, software. What Nikola has, when we remove the fraudulent claims, is a prototype built by Iveco, with zero substantial IP from Nikola. To say Nikola is at the same stage of Tesla is not even wrong. They've never built a working truck in their entire existence. Their "stage" is at a super position from nothing to infinity, as long as you don't look, and no one has ever been allowed to look, at the risk of getting a dead cat.
bagels 5y ago
There is no way this is true. Tesla has functional factories for batteries for one.

xkjkls 5y ago

Nikola has focused on some substantially different segments of the EV market than they have. Nikola has focused on the trucking market, rather than the consumer car market, which at least is different from many of its competitors

rhizome 5y ago
Trucking you can still kill people. You know who I'd like to hear about? The company making self-loading and unloading shipping containers. Now that, I bet, is an achievable goal.