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> I don't think anyone is seriously under the delusion that Duolingo alone will make you fluent in a language. I'm active in various Facebook/Reddit groups dea

> I don't think anyone is seriously under the delusion that Duolingo alone will make you fluent in a language. I'm active in various Facebook/Reddit groups dealing with language learning. The average user, who's never learned a language before, does think DL will make them fluent. And DL advertises themselves in this manner as well. It's a common issue: "I've got my entire tree gold, why can't I understand natives?" > I cannot think of a single more effective method than Duolingo to get over this first hurdle. I think an actual coursebook is more useful, but it also likely depends on person. DL doesn't really teach language skills for most the courses. It has you translate, you never practice reading for comprehension, listening for comprehension (or listening to natives at all, in the courses with TTS), or writing. And not to mention the default of 'click the words' in the mobile app doesn't force recall at all.

tgb 5y ago
Audio is the most important and hardest component of learning a language so apps have a huge advantage over textbooks any day. I really don't think recommending textbooks is at all relevant these days. Graded readers are better for simulating immersion. Apps are better for getting your feet wet. Textbooks can teach grammar but so can apps and really you have to be pretty far along for grammar to be the main stumbling block (over listening, pronunciation, and vocabulary).
- dorchadas 5y ago
  > Audio is the most important and hardest component of learning a language so apps have a huge advantage over textbooks any day. Assuming the apps actually use native speaker audio. Which Duolingo doesn't do. > I really don't think recommending textbooks is at all relevant these days. I disagree completely. Textbooks are still, in my opinion and experience, the most efficient way to start learning a language. > really you have to be pretty far along for grammar to be the main stumbling block (over listening, pronunciation, and vocabulary). I wouldn't agree you have to be "pretty far along". Grammar becomes a huge stumbling block as soon as you get outside the pleasantries section of learning. Once you start trying to talk about your day and what you'll do and did, then the grammar really starts to matter.
  - barney54 5y ago
    Why do you say Duolingo doesn’t use native speakers? Their Spanish speakers for example are either native or indistinguishable from native speakers.
    - dorchadas 5y ago
      Then that's an update. For the longest time it was simply TTS, with all the downsides that contains.
      - fuzxi 5y ago
        They've been working on improving their recordings for years. It's a lot better now.
- blacktriangle 5y ago
  I use newsinslowfrench.com for this very reason. They have a whole library of grammer lessons and language learning courses, but the main product really is that every week they produce 4 "news broadcasts" actually talking about news of the week by native speakers. In addition to the general listening reenforcement, each weeks script emphasizes a particular element of grammer and comes along with that topics lesson. They product both a speaking slow and speaking at a normal speed version so you can start with the slow one to get an understanding of what is happening, then listen to the actual speed lesson and have a chance. It's an awesome program, but it doesn't scale to other languages in the way that some general-purpsoe learn all the languages startup can.
wildfire 5y ago
≥ you never practice reading for comprehension This has existed for at least two years: https://www.duolingo.com/stories https://www.duolingo.com/stories Yes, it does not cover every language but the intent is to address that ( perceived ) complaint. I disagree that an actual coursebook is more helpful. I used Duo for 6 months prior to moving to a Germany. It gave me an incredible confidence boost to be able to at least understand what was going on around me. After living in Berlin for 6 months I did a course and I was far ahead of others who had taken formal courses before. It has been 2 years since I left Germany, I still do my Duo daily and have continued doing German courses. It has helped maintain my minimal ability. > it also likely depends on person Indeed. My partner at the time did the same as me and Duo did not work for her at all.
- dorchadas 5y ago
  > This has existed for at least two years: https://www.duolingo.com/stories https://www.duolingo.com/stories I'm aware of stories, but given that it's only available in a small minority of languages, I'd say it's fair to say DL doesn't offer it when the majority of their languages don't (and likely won't ever) have stories.
  - FalconSensei 5y ago
    they used to have you read wiki articles like, 6 years ago? I feel that over the years, Duolingo started focusing way more on the game aspect than learning. The spaced repetition is also mostly gone, only somewhat available on desktop.
    - inside_out_life 5y ago
      This is not true, they've made changes recently to their premium features that forces you to do training (spaced tasks).
      - FalconSensei 5y ago
        I see... It's kinda true still, as before we had that on the free plan.
chrisfosterelli 5y ago
> It's a common issue: "I've got my entire tree gold, why can't I understand natives?" As an alternative anecdote, I've been using Duolingo for years and spend some time in the forums + different Spanish learning communities whose users frequently use Duolingo and I have never seen anyone ever ask this. It's always struck me as obvious to everyone that you would need multiple resources to become fluent, but Duolingo is useful as a good quality free resource that can be done anywhere at any time. I'm not saying you're wrong, as we probably come across different posts or groups, just an another experience to share.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

tgb 5y ago

Audio is the most important and hardest component of learning a language so apps have a huge advantage over textbooks any day. I really don't think recommending textbooks is at all relevant these days. Graded readers are better for simulating immersion. Apps are better for getting your feet wet. Textbooks can teach grammar but so can apps and really you have to be pretty far along for grammar to be the main stumbling block (over listening, pronunciation, and vocabulary).

dorchadas 5y ago
> Audio is the most important and hardest component of learning a language so apps have a huge advantage over textbooks any day. Assuming the apps actually use native speaker audio. Which Duolingo doesn't do. > I really don't think recommending textbooks is at all relevant these days. I disagree completely. Textbooks are still, in my opinion and experience, the most efficient way to start learning a language. > really you have to be pretty far along for grammar to be the main stumbling block (over listening, pronunciation, and vocabulary). I wouldn't agree you have to be "pretty far along". Grammar becomes a huge stumbling block as soon as you get outside the pleasantries section of learning. Once you start trying to talk about your day and what you'll do and did, then the grammar really starts to matter.
- barney54 5y ago
  Why do you say Duolingo doesn’t use native speakers? Their Spanish speakers for example are either native or indistinguishable from native speakers.
  - dorchadas 5y ago
    Then that's an update. For the longest time it was simply TTS, with all the downsides that contains.
    - fuzxi 5y ago
      They've been working on improving their recordings for years. It's a lot better now.
blacktriangle 5y ago
I use newsinslowfrench.com for this very reason. They have a whole library of grammer lessons and language learning courses, but the main product really is that every week they produce 4 "news broadcasts" actually talking about news of the week by native speakers. In addition to the general listening reenforcement, each weeks script emphasizes a particular element of grammer and comes along with that topics lesson. They product both a speaking slow and speaking at a normal speed version so you can start with the slow one to get an understanding of what is happening, then listen to the actual speed lesson and have a chance. It's an awesome program, but it doesn't scale to other languages in the way that some general-purpsoe learn all the languages startup can.

wildfire 5y ago

≥ you never practice reading for comprehension This has existed for at least two years: https://www.duolingo.com/stories https://www.duolingo.com/stories Yes, it does not cover every language but the intent is to address that ( perceived ) complaint. I disagree that an actual coursebook is more helpful. I used Duo for 6 months prior to moving to a Germany. It gave me an incredible confidence boost to be able to at least understand what was going on around me. After living in Berlin for 6 months I did a course and I was far ahead of others who had taken formal courses before. It has been 2 years since I left Germany, I still do my Duo daily and have continued doing German courses. It has helped maintain my minimal ability. > it also likely depends on person Indeed. My partner at the time did the same as me and Duo did not work for her at all.

dorchadas 5y ago
> This has existed for at least two years: https://www.duolingo.com/stories https://www.duolingo.com/stories I'm aware of stories, but given that it's only available in a small minority of languages, I'd say it's fair to say DL doesn't offer it when the majority of their languages don't (and likely won't ever) have stories.
- FalconSensei 5y ago
  they used to have you read wiki articles like, 6 years ago? I feel that over the years, Duolingo started focusing way more on the game aspect than learning. The spaced repetition is also mostly gone, only somewhat available on desktop.
  - inside_out_life 5y ago
    This is not true, they've made changes recently to their premium features that forces you to do training (spaced tasks).
    - FalconSensei 5y ago
      I see... It's kinda true still, as before we had that on the free plan.

chrisfosterelli 5y ago

> It's a common issue: "I've got my entire tree gold, why can't I understand natives?" As an alternative anecdote, I've been using Duolingo for years and spend some time in the forums + different Spanish learning communities whose users frequently use Duolingo and I have never seen anyone ever ask this. It's always struck me as obvious to everyone that you would need multiple resources to become fluent, but Duolingo is useful as a good quality free resource that can be done anywhere at any time. I'm not saying you're wrong, as we probably come across different posts or groups, just an another experience to share.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]