4 ms·

Your comment misses the point. There are two reasons why this bill is so high: 1. Some doctors and some hospitals are make tremendous amount of money - hospita

Your comment misses the point. There are two reasons why this bill is so high: 1. Some doctors and some hospitals are make tremendous amount of money - hospital revenue is about $1T and doctor revenue is about .5T. 2. This country has an insatiable demand for expensive healthcare. There’s no country with universal coverage where a child with little chance for survival would have received this level of care.

Jenk 5y ago
The UK gives this level of care to many people routinely.
- hef19898 5y ago
  As do France and Germany.
  - tiagod 5y ago
    Portugal too. Our system is far from perfect (the best medication is sometimes prohibitively expensive for some people who really need it - chronic patients, pensioners) but there are many examples of our national health system investing heavily in particular individuals with little chance for survival. A recent example is health system paying for Zolgensma, the most expensive medication in the world, leading to millions of expense per year[1][2] on this medication alone for a very small amount of babies. [1] https://tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/saude/estado-gastou-4-1-milhoes-de-euros-em-medicamento-para-a-atrofia-muscular-espinal https://tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/saude/estado-gastou-4-1-milho... [2] https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-eyes-arrival-of-worlds-priciest-drug/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-eyes-arrival-of-world...
- simonh 5y ago
  It also does so to anyone who needs it regardless of ability to pay, and at overall half the cost of health care per person in the population compared to the US. You can also still pay for enhanced private health care if you want.
- iammisc 5y ago
  And yet, while many american insurers cover expensive gene therapies, European autorhities simply pretend the drugs are unsafe and refuse to cover them. This sort of thing goes both ways
  - Jenk 5y ago
    Gene therapy is available on the NHS in the UK. And the American system that is systematically bankrupting sick people for profit is a damn sight less perfect than the European authorities issues. Yes, it goes both ways, but it goes much further one way over the other.
    - iammisc 5y ago
      > Yes, it goes both ways, but it goes much further one way over the other. That's fair. For gene therapy, I was referring to Zolgensma, which was delayed substantially in Europe and forced many to seek treatment in America. The delay was mainly due to cost savings, and the delay was clinically meaningful (since treatment is time sensitive).
      - Jenk 5y ago
        https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/03/nhs-england-strikes-deal-on-life-saving-gene-therapy-drug-that-can-help-babies-with-rare-genetic-disease-move-and-walk/ https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/03/nhs-england-strikes-deal-... That's available too.
        iammisc 5y ago
        I acknowledged this: > delayed substantially in Europe In the meantime, between when FDA approved v NHS, children became debilitated.
        Jenk 5y ago
        Fair dos. I haven't looked but is it possible there are some vice-versa examples? Anyway. At least with the NHS you won't be expected to pay the millions per dose fees, via insurance or other means.
arethuza 5y ago
A quick google led be to this example of a child receiving 5 months care after being born 18 weeks premature in an NHS hospital: https://www.lancsteachinghospitals.nhs.uk/latest-news/happy-first-birthday-stella-our-youngest-premature-baby-to-ever-be-discharged-from-royal-preston-hospital-5159 https://www.lancsteachinghospitals.nhs.uk/latest-news/happy-...
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  See also: Stephen Hawking. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/mar/14/i-would-not-have-survived-nhs-enabled-stephen-hawking-to-live-long-life https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/mar/14/i-would-not-... > As the Obama administration sought to reform the US healthcare system in 2009, the US Investor’s Business Daily argued that Stephen Hawking “wouldn’t have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless”. > It was duly pointed out that Hawking was not only born and educated in England, but received more care than most from the nation’s health service. “I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS,” Hawking told the Guardian at the time. “I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.”
  - arethuza 5y ago
    Worth noting that Hawking won't have got special treatment because of who he was.
only_as_i_fall 5y ago
>There’s no country with universal coverage where a child with little chance for survival would have received this level of care. You have a source for that claim? Two weeks in the nicu is not that long tbh.

Jenk 5y ago

The UK gives this level of care to many people routinely.

hef19898 5y ago
As do France and Germany.
- tiagod 5y ago
  Portugal too. Our system is far from perfect (the best medication is sometimes prohibitively expensive for some people who really need it - chronic patients, pensioners) but there are many examples of our national health system investing heavily in particular individuals with little chance for survival. A recent example is health system paying for Zolgensma, the most expensive medication in the world, leading to millions of expense per year[1][2] on this medication alone for a very small amount of babies. [1] https://tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/saude/estado-gastou-4-1-milhoes-de-euros-em-medicamento-para-a-atrofia-muscular-espinal https://tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/saude/estado-gastou-4-1-milho... [2] https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-eyes-arrival-of-worlds-priciest-drug/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-eyes-arrival-of-world...
simonh 5y ago
It also does so to anyone who needs it regardless of ability to pay, and at overall half the cost of health care per person in the population compared to the US. You can also still pay for enhanced private health care if you want.
iammisc 5y ago
And yet, while many american insurers cover expensive gene therapies, European autorhities simply pretend the drugs are unsafe and refuse to cover them. This sort of thing goes both ways
- Jenk 5y ago
  Gene therapy is available on the NHS in the UK. And the American system that is systematically bankrupting sick people for profit is a damn sight less perfect than the European authorities issues. Yes, it goes both ways, but it goes much further one way over the other.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    > Yes, it goes both ways, but it goes much further one way over the other. That's fair. For gene therapy, I was referring to Zolgensma, which was delayed substantially in Europe and forced many to seek treatment in America. The delay was mainly due to cost savings, and the delay was clinically meaningful (since treatment is time sensitive).
    - Jenk 5y ago
      https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/03/nhs-england-strikes-deal-on-life-saving-gene-therapy-drug-that-can-help-babies-with-rare-genetic-disease-move-and-walk/ https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/03/nhs-england-strikes-deal-... That's available too.
      - iammisc 5y ago
        I acknowledged this: > delayed substantially in Europe In the meantime, between when FDA approved v NHS, children became debilitated.
        Jenk 5y ago
        Fair dos. I haven't looked but is it possible there are some vice-versa examples? Anyway. At least with the NHS you won't be expected to pay the millions per dose fees, via insurance or other means.

arethuza 5y ago

A quick google led be to this example of a child receiving 5 months care after being born 18 weeks premature in an NHS hospital: https://www.lancsteachinghospitals.nhs.uk/latest-news/happy-first-birthday-stella-our-youngest-premature-baby-to-ever-be-discharged-from-royal-preston-hospital-5159 https://www.lancsteachinghospitals.nhs.uk/latest-news/happy-...

ceejayoz 5y ago
See also: Stephen Hawking. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/mar/14/i-would-not-have-survived-nhs-enabled-stephen-hawking-to-live-long-life https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/mar/14/i-would-not-... > As the Obama administration sought to reform the US healthcare system in 2009, the US Investor’s Business Daily argued that Stephen Hawking “wouldn’t have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless”. > It was duly pointed out that Hawking was not only born and educated in England, but received more care than most from the nation’s health service. “I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS,” Hawking told the Guardian at the time. “I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.”
- arethuza 5y ago
  Worth noting that Hawking won't have got special treatment because of who he was.

only_as_i_fall 5y ago

>There’s no country with universal coverage where a child with little chance for survival would have received this level of care. You have a source for that claim? Two weeks in the nicu is not that long tbh.