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To convince us from your viewpoint explain what Bell would have done differently without patents. Using only trade secrets. Would Bell Labs have done so extensi

by kiba 5y ago

To convince us from your viewpoint explain what Bell would have done differently without patents. Using only trade secrets. Would Bell Labs have done so extensive basic research? Secondly explain how you allow small inventors to exist without patent system. Small inventors are already squished by the patent system, because they're used by larger players to squish inventors. Plus, big players can basically start a lab and patent ALL the innovations and inventions. There's no guarantee that these corporations will commercialize the technologies for the benefit of humanity. For example, 3D printing was stymied by initial innovators. It was only when expiration of patents that allowed the open source 3d printing ecosystem to flourish. In any case, we missed at least a decade of development in 3d printing technology.

nabla9 5y ago
> Small inventors are already squished by Not as much as you think. They would be squished completely without patent system. Because current patent system is not perfect you are advocating something worse. A small and micro entities can file patents very cheaply. In the US fees are cut 60 to 75 percent. Without patents, you can't small or medium sized R&D companies that file patents would go extinct. (Btw. I strongly favor mandatory licensing for patents. Mandatory licensing might be immediate or after a year or something). >For example, 3D printing was stymied by initial innovators. Can you make argument that it would not be stymied the same way or worse without patents (trade secret).
- kiba 5y ago
  But not as much as completely without patent system. Because current patent system is not perfect you are advocating something worse. How would you know that the patent system works better than nothing? Maybe you have to consider that an idea is fundamentally flawed in the first place. Without patents, you can't small or medium sized R&D companies that file patents would go extinct. Not exactly true. SpaceX deliberately didn't patent their technologies, and yet they succeeded brilliantly. They are now the Goliath of the industry.
  - nabla9 5y ago
    > How would you know that the patent system works better than nothing? Comparative analysis between regiments and across the history. For crude overview, consider the US vs China. Also see SpaceX case below. Also my original point: separating manufacturing and innovation. Small inventor rarely is the same as manufacturer. Without patent, inventor has nothing to sell. They can only give away. >Maybe you have to consider that an idea is fundamentally flawed in the first place. I am. I'm researching and learning the subject and I am hoping good counterarguments. So far people just come up with ad hoc arguments on the spot. Normative and ideological blanket statements are not very good. >SpaceX deliberately didn't patent their technologies, and yet they succeeded brilliantly. yes: trade secrets. SpaceX is interesting case and their reasoning is interesting. SpaceX has started filing patents (Starlink Project), but not very aggressively in their core rocket technology. They choose to keep their core technology trade secret. Their reason for keeping trade secrets is very interesting: “We have essentially no patents in SpaceX. Our primary long-term competition is in China. If we published patents, it would be farcical, because the Chinese would just use them as a recipe book.” – Elon Musk

by kiba 5y ago

nabla9 5y ago

> Small inventors are already squished by Not as much as you think. They would be squished completely without patent system. Because current patent system is not perfect you are advocating something worse. A small and micro entities can file patents very cheaply. In the US fees are cut 60 to 75 percent. Without patents, you can't small or medium sized R&D companies that file patents would go extinct. (Btw. I strongly favor mandatory licensing for patents. Mandatory licensing might be immediate or after a year or something). >For example, 3D printing was stymied by initial innovators. Can you make argument that it would not be stymied the same way or worse without patents (trade secret).

kiba 5y ago
But not as much as completely without patent system. Because current patent system is not perfect you are advocating something worse. How would you know that the patent system works better than nothing? Maybe you have to consider that an idea is fundamentally flawed in the first place. Without patents, you can't small or medium sized R&D companies that file patents would go extinct. Not exactly true. SpaceX deliberately didn't patent their technologies, and yet they succeeded brilliantly. They are now the Goliath of the industry.
- nabla9 5y ago
  > How would you know that the patent system works better than nothing? Comparative analysis between regiments and across the history. For crude overview, consider the US vs China. Also see SpaceX case below. Also my original point: separating manufacturing and innovation. Small inventor rarely is the same as manufacturer. Without patent, inventor has nothing to sell. They can only give away. >Maybe you have to consider that an idea is fundamentally flawed in the first place. I am. I'm researching and learning the subject and I am hoping good counterarguments. So far people just come up with ad hoc arguments on the spot. Normative and ideological blanket statements are not very good. >SpaceX deliberately didn't patent their technologies, and yet they succeeded brilliantly. yes: trade secrets. SpaceX is interesting case and their reasoning is interesting. SpaceX has started filing patents (Starlink Project), but not very aggressively in their core rocket technology. They choose to keep their core technology trade secret. Their reason for keeping trade secrets is very interesting: “We have essentially no patents in SpaceX. Our primary long-term competition is in China. If we published patents, it would be farcical, because the Chinese would just use them as a recipe book.” – Elon Musk