3 ms·

No, really, better not. The people who are "captured" by this meme, as you rather condescendingly put it, generally don't trust the vaccine safety statistics, h

No, really, better not. The people who are "captured" by this meme, as you rather condescendingly put it, generally don't trust the vaccine safety statistics, have many valid reasons not to do so, and are also well aware of the statistics around how dangerous COVID is or isn't for themselves. It would take great faith to believe that the institutions are providing reliable data right now in an atmosphere of mass hysteria. How about, rather than assuming people you disagree with are "captured" by "memes", you sit down, treat them like intelligent adults, listen to them and only then consider what to do?

seriousquestion 5y ago
Well said. It's projection. Many of those complaining about others being captured by memes are they themselves captured by groupthink. That the institutions are failing so badly is, understandably, causing great distress and cognitive dissonance for people who desperately want to trust an authority. It's easy to forget, but all of this and more came from public health professionals and the media: Two weeks to flatten the curve. The flu is the real pandemic. Get out there for Chinese New Year! Wuhan Lab Leak is for crazy racists. Masks don’t work. No Lockdowns Anymore! So is it any wonder that people are confused and angry?
xyzzy21 5y ago
There is NO SAFETY data because no COVID vaccines have finished clinical trails yet. That's what "Emergency Authorization" means - we give it to people even though it hasn't gone through the human clinical trials that every other drug normally does! Everyone vaccinated is legally and procedurally part of those clinical trials - it says so on the FDA web site. And those trials are not scheduled to be completed until 2023 - also stated on the same FDA web page. So "safety" absolutely has NOT been proven or validated yet. Even minimal standard FDA processes have not been completed.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  The hell are you talking about, we have data from the clinical trials that ran last year. Those phases have completed.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    At this point we don't even need clinical trial data because their safety and efficacy have also been proven in the real world.
    - macinjosh 5y ago
      In the short term.
      - simondotau 5y ago
        We know what the long term consequences of vaccination are: reduction of risk of the long term consequences of COVID. These include breathing difficulties, fatigue and cognitive impairment. The objectively proven benefits of vaccination are so starkly and concretely conclusive that it is functionally impossible for anyone's imagined fantastical, hypothetical concerns to outweigh them. A vaccine isn't even really medicine, it's science. It is a method of giving your immune system a heads up about a pathogen without exposing you to the actual pathogen. The vaccine doesn't hang around in your body for the "long term". The vaccine material is quickly disposed of by your body. After a few weeks, the only things left inside you is your own immune system, better educated.
        forcry 5y ago
        > vaccine material There is no single "vaccine material" and pretending there is this single magic completely disappearing thing in all vaccines is disingenuous at best. Also, just because something disappear from the body does not mean that it will have long lasting impacts (of course that is the point, where the gained immunity is a positive impact, but there could also be negative)
        simondotau 5y ago
        I never said that vaccine material was singular; my intent was for "material" to represent the totality of all material content in the vaccine dose, save perhaps for the water molecules it is suspended in. If you want to go down that rabbit hole of "long lasting impacts" then you must equally accept that everything you eat is a risk. Everything you wear against your skin is a risk. Every breath you take. Every move you make. Every bond you break. Risk is everywhere. Running away from a Komodo dragon carries the risk present in any form of physical activity. It's possible that you might trip, fall, and hit your head in a particularly nasty way. But the fact that running isn't entirely free of risk doesn't mean running away from a Komodo dragon is a bad idea.
simondotau 5y ago
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6lzVY3WYAEe4gP?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6lzVY3WYAEe4gP?format=jpg&name=... End of argument.
- native_samples 5y ago
  Do you think Google and Facebook are overrun with those are were dying of COVID before, i.e. 70+ year old people? I can tell you they're not.
robalicious 5y ago
Remember, nobody is going to change their mind on this issue because of a perfectly worded response in an internet discussion. If you want to change anyone's mind, focus on the people you can speak to in the real world—and have a conversation filled with love and respect. Trust in vaccination is a powerful meme which cannot be countered by deriding the people who are sincerely captured by it. Instead, I suggest you walk them through the statistics and place them into human terms and human context. Show them how to calculate risk of death. Show them how to calculate risk of long term injury.

seriousquestion 5y ago

Well said. It's projection. Many of those complaining about others being captured by memes are they themselves captured by groupthink. That the institutions are failing so badly is, understandably, causing great distress and cognitive dissonance for people who desperately want to trust an authority. It's easy to forget, but all of this and more came from public health professionals and the media: Two weeks to flatten the curve. The flu is the real pandemic. Get out there for Chinese New Year! Wuhan Lab Leak is for crazy racists. Masks don’t work. No Lockdowns Anymore! So is it any wonder that people are confused and angry?

xyzzy21 5y ago

There is NO SAFETY data because no COVID vaccines have finished clinical trails yet. That's what "Emergency Authorization" means - we give it to people even though it hasn't gone through the human clinical trials that every other drug normally does! Everyone vaccinated is legally and procedurally part of those clinical trials - it says so on the FDA web site. And those trials are not scheduled to be completed until 2023 - also stated on the same FDA web page. So "safety" absolutely has NOT been proven or validated yet. Even minimal standard FDA processes have not been completed.

TulliusCicero 5y ago
The hell are you talking about, we have data from the clinical trials that ran last year. Those phases have completed.
- simondotau 5y ago
  At this point we don't even need clinical trial data because their safety and efficacy have also been proven in the real world.
  - macinjosh 5y ago
    In the short term.
    - simondotau 5y ago
      We know what the long term consequences of vaccination are: reduction of risk of the long term consequences of COVID. These include breathing difficulties, fatigue and cognitive impairment. The objectively proven benefits of vaccination are so starkly and concretely conclusive that it is functionally impossible for anyone's imagined fantastical, hypothetical concerns to outweigh them. A vaccine isn't even really medicine, it's science. It is a method of giving your immune system a heads up about a pathogen without exposing you to the actual pathogen. The vaccine doesn't hang around in your body for the "long term". The vaccine material is quickly disposed of by your body. After a few weeks, the only things left inside you is your own immune system, better educated.
      - forcry 5y ago
        > vaccine material There is no single "vaccine material" and pretending there is this single magic completely disappearing thing in all vaccines is disingenuous at best. Also, just because something disappear from the body does not mean that it will have long lasting impacts (of course that is the point, where the gained immunity is a positive impact, but there could also be negative)
        simondotau 5y ago
        I never said that vaccine material was singular; my intent was for "material" to represent the totality of all material content in the vaccine dose, save perhaps for the water molecules it is suspended in. If you want to go down that rabbit hole of "long lasting impacts" then you must equally accept that everything you eat is a risk. Everything you wear against your skin is a risk. Every breath you take. Every move you make. Every bond you break. Risk is everywhere. Running away from a Komodo dragon carries the risk present in any form of physical activity. It's possible that you might trip, fall, and hit your head in a particularly nasty way. But the fact that running isn't entirely free of risk doesn't mean running away from a Komodo dragon is a bad idea.

simondotau 5y ago

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6lzVY3WYAEe4gP?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6lzVY3WYAEe4gP?format=jpg&name=... End of argument.

native_samples 5y ago
Do you think Google and Facebook are overrun with those are were dying of COVID before, i.e. 70+ year old people? I can tell you they're not.

robalicious 5y ago

Remember, nobody is going to change their mind on this issue because of a perfectly worded response in an internet discussion. If you want to change anyone's mind, focus on the people you can speak to in the real world—and have a conversation filled with love and respect. Trust in vaccination is a powerful meme which cannot be countered by deriding the people who are sincerely captured by it. Instead, I suggest you walk them through the statistics and place them into human terms and human context. Show them how to calculate risk of death. Show them how to calculate risk of long term injury.