4 ms·

I find this frustrating because I often want exactly

by skohan 5y ago

matsemann 5y ago
Yeah, I get that as well and sometimes feel the same. The difference is that a beginner tries to do Y, fails, think they can solve it by doing subtask X, so they ask X. But us with more experience know why Y didn't work and probably have a good reason for asking X. But the answerers cannot know that. So adding a small snippet of what have been tried, or why X specific is what's needed is a good idea to steer the conversation in the correct direction.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  In my experience, if you tell people your use case for wanting to do X instead of Y, they'll just attack your use case instead. I, for one, never use places like SO anymore because everyone just wants to pretend you really want Y, because that's an answer they know.
  - dkarl 5y ago
    I use SO all the time for gleaning information from the answers, but never for asking questions, for this very reason. The questions that show up in search results are full of great answers and information, but mine ended up full of people who didn't know the answer to my question but were eager to tell me about something they did know. Then I'd put more and more effort into providing context and justifying the question, until eventually the answers dried up. I decided I was better off seeking help on mailing lists, issue trackers, chat rooms, etc.
  - skohan 5y ago
    Yeah honestly I feel like it has gotten a lot worse since I was using it actively maybe 8-10 years ago. It seems to have moved towards a lot of people playing the karma game, and trying to focus on every flaw rather than trying to answer the question and give help. Nowadays, I usually try to find a community or forum directly related to the specific subject I'm working on. However, it's hard to tell if the quality has actually changed, or whether it's just more geared towards novice programmers and I'm just not asking the type of questions that get help on the platform anymore.
praptak 5y ago
Then specify the context as part of your question: "I want X. I think alternative solutions like Y won't work because...". As it is with many things in life the more effort you invest in the question, the greater the returns :) Although tbh I quite often want the opposite, so I add "Alternative solutions/workarounds welcome" or "I don't see how I can avoid doing X but maybe..."
- pessimizer 5y ago
  > "I want X. I think alternative solutions like Y won't work because..." Listing all of the things you don't want to do would not only take up more words and effort than the question about what you do want to do, but is hopeless. Somebody who doesn't know the answer to your question but still wants to comment will find something that you were unaware you didn't want to do. It's better just to answer questions directly, and then when somebody uses that solution and it doesn't get them closer to the solution to their real problem, they'll ask a better question.
  - mixedCase 5y ago
    Sorry, but that doesn't make sense and sounds like a rationalization for being lazy with the question. You're worrying about a straw man instead of trying to help out people who do know how to deal with the actual problem you have. And bad solutions can still "solve" problems with horrible trade-offs, so instead of searching again for a better solution people may just employ the worse one unaware of the better possibilities, consequences be damned.
    - skohan 5y ago
      I think it depends on the quality of the question. For instance, if it's a semi-vague question just pointing in the direction of a solution, then I think it's fair to question the motivation of the poster. But if it's a very precise question about how to accomplish something specific, I think the burden should be on the person answering to add the clause: "you can do X, but its generally not considered a good idea because Y". Honestly if you can't answer the original question, I get the impression you're just trying to be a smarty-pants and show off some domain knowledge you have which is related to the task at hand.

I find this frustrating because I often want exactly

by skohan 5y ago

I find this frustrating because I often want exactly

Yeah, I get that as well and sometimes feel the same. The difference is that a beginner tries to do Y, fails, think they can solve it by doing subtask X, so they ask X. But us with more experience know why Y didn't work and probably have a good reason for asking X. But the answerers cannot know that. So adding a small snippet of what have been tried, or why X specific is what's needed is a good idea to steer the conversation in the correct direction.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
In my experience, if you tell people your use case for wanting to do X instead of Y, they'll just attack your use case instead. I, for one, never use places like SO anymore because everyone just wants to pretend you really want Y, because that's an answer they know.
- dkarl 5y ago
  I use SO all the time for gleaning information from the answers, but never for asking questions, for this very reason. The questions that show up in search results are full of great answers and information, but mine ended up full of people who didn't know the answer to my question but were eager to tell me about something they did know. Then I'd put more and more effort into providing context and justifying the question, until eventually the answers dried up. I decided I was better off seeking help on mailing lists, issue trackers, chat rooms, etc.
- skohan 5y ago
  Yeah honestly I feel like it has gotten a lot worse since I was using it actively maybe 8-10 years ago. It seems to have moved towards a lot of people playing the karma game, and trying to focus on every flaw rather than trying to answer the question and give help. Nowadays, I usually try to find a community or forum directly related to the specific subject I'm working on. However, it's hard to tell if the quality has actually changed, or whether it's just more geared towards novice programmers and I'm just not asking the type of questions that get help on the platform anymore.

praptak 5y ago

Then specify the context as part of your question: "I want X. I think alternative solutions like Y won't work because...". As it is with many things in life the more effort you invest in the question, the greater the returns :) Although tbh I quite often want the opposite, so I add "Alternative solutions/workarounds welcome" or "I don't see how I can avoid doing X but maybe..."

pessimizer 5y ago
> "I want X. I think alternative solutions like Y won't work because..." Listing all of the things you don't want to do would not only take up more words and effort than the question about what you do want to do, but is hopeless. Somebody who doesn't know the answer to your question but still wants to comment will find something that you were unaware you didn't want to do. It's better just to answer questions directly, and then when somebody uses that solution and it doesn't get them closer to the solution to their real problem, they'll ask a better question.
- mixedCase 5y ago
  Sorry, but that doesn't make sense and sounds like a rationalization for being lazy with the question. You're worrying about a straw man instead of trying to help out people who do know how to deal with the actual problem you have. And bad solutions can still "solve" problems with horrible trade-offs, so instead of searching again for a better solution people may just employ the worse one unaware of the better possibilities, consequences be damned.
  - skohan 5y ago
    I think it depends on the quality of the question. For instance, if it's a semi-vague question just pointing in the direction of a solution, then I think it's fair to question the motivation of the poster. But if it's a very precise question about how to accomplish something specific, I think the burden should be on the person answering to add the clause: "you can do X, but its generally not considered a good idea because Y". Honestly if you can't answer the original question, I get the impression you're just trying to be a smarty-pants and show off some domain knowledge you have which is related to the task at hand.