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I have some sympathy to this argument, even though I agree with you in overall that based on what we know from the millions of vaccines being administered, they

I have some sympathy to this argument, even though I agree with you in overall that based on what we know from the millions of vaccines being administered, they appear to be very safe. But points in favor of the FDA argument, which is mostly around emergency authorization requiring a lower standard of evidence: - The pharmaceutical industry is notorious for manipulation of trial data to make their treatments looks as beneficial as possible, as they are incentivized to do so. In the current case Pfizer and others have still not made the trial data public, and probably never will [0][1] - The main study on the Pfizer vaccine contained safety data for an average of about two months - on this basis the vaccine was declared to be extremely safe. Obviously longer term effects cannot be captured in this timeframe [2] - Due to the requirements to generate a clear public health message, almost anything that may suggest a risk with vaccines is downplayed. See for example how VAERS data is routinely dismissed (with some reason)[3], whereas data on COVID hospitalization and death rates is largely unquestioned, despite containing some room for interpretation [4]. Again, the the totality of evidence suggests that the vaccine are safe and effective. But it is not crazy or evil, as some would suggest here, to question some of what we are being told and how the data is being presented to us. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01911-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01911-7 [1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/31/pfizer-resists-calls-for-greater-clincal-trial-transparency-medicine-drugs https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/31/pfizer-resi... [2] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577 [3]https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-faers-idUSL2N2OE1ZA https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-faers-idUSL2... [4] https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted-it-s-complicated https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-are-covid-19-deaths-c...

boulos 5y ago
Does full FDA approval make a meaningful difference, though? If anything, it seems like if someone doesn’t want to rely on the current EUA (because of limited data, incentives, etc.) then they shouldn’t suddenly be okay with the FDA’s full authorization.
- leesalminen 5y ago
  Not the parent, but not really, no. Over the past couple years we’ve witnessed and discussed at length the level of regulatory capture that has affected the FAA (via Boeing). That makes me wonder if the FDA has also succumbed to the same issues (via Pfizer). The agencies have a similar role and similar potentiality for capture. Revolving doors, lots of $ at stake, huge multinational corporations. I’ve brought this up before and was downvoted to hell. But I’m just putting it out there without bias. It’s based on a logical thought process. I don’t understand why we can’t even discuss if there are issues with the FDA’s process being corrupted by corporations with billions of dollars.

boulos 5y ago

Does full FDA approval make a meaningful difference, though? If anything, it seems like if someone doesn’t want to rely on the current EUA (because of limited data, incentives, etc.) then they shouldn’t suddenly be okay with the FDA’s full authorization.

leesalminen 5y ago
Not the parent, but not really, no. Over the past couple years we’ve witnessed and discussed at length the level of regulatory capture that has affected the FAA (via Boeing). That makes me wonder if the FDA has also succumbed to the same issues (via Pfizer). The agencies have a similar role and similar potentiality for capture. Revolving doors, lots of $ at stake, huge multinational corporations. I’ve brought this up before and was downvoted to hell. But I’m just putting it out there without bias. It’s based on a logical thought process. I don’t understand why we can’t even discuss if there are issues with the FDA’s process being corrupted by corporations with billions of dollars.