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I find it fun to learn language on Duolingo as a kind of game. But unless I have a need to regularly use the learning, I know for sure it won't stick. And I'm

by dubeye 5y ago

I find it fun to learn language on Duolingo as a kind of game. But unless I have a need to regularly use the learning, I know for sure it won't stick. And I'm afraid that last 0.1% of aquisition is pretty much impossible to obtain deliberately unless you abandon your native language. Even your English, whilst technicaly good, has a couple of flags.

rtpg 5y ago
There are plenty of people effectively native in multiple languages. It’s not guaranteed (I have that missing part for one language despite having done all of High School and college in it), but i know people who speak perfectly in two languages (usually English+their parents native tongue) I have found that English is a bit weird in that you need obsessively high absorption of like, culture, to execute well, so it’s easier to spot non-native speakers.
- FabHK 5y ago
  > I have found that English is a bit weird in that you need obsessively high absorption of like, culture, to execute well I'd think that English is not unique there. To speak Chinese at the level of an educated native, I'd say you have learn not only the language, but also the country's history, and have some familiarity with canonical Chinese texts such as the "Four Books and Five Classics" (Confucius, Mencius, etc.), "The Dream of the Red Chamber", etc., to understand idioms such as "四面楚歌" (four sides of Chu song = facing insurmountable difficulty, defeat [1]). As another example, Hong Kong has its own lingo (a variety of Cantonese) that evolves so rapidly that HK people that have been abroad a few years tell me that they note that the language has evolved and shifted when they come back. I'm fairly certain that it is easy to spot non-native speakers in many languages, maybe even easier than in English. [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/四面楚歌 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/四面楚歌
- bojan 5y ago
  > I have found that English is a bit weird in that you need obsessively high absorption of like, culture, to execute well, so it’s easier to spot non-native speakers. This applies to every language out there, English is certainly not an exception in this aspect.
chki 5y ago
> And I'm afraid that last 0.1% of aquisition is pretty much impossible to obtain deliberately unless you abandon your native language. Even your English, whilst technicaly good, has a couple of flags But those last .1 % are not very useful anyway if you're not living abroad. You want to be able to communicate fluently and not make noticeable mistakes, but it's not necessary to seem like a native speaker. Unless you want to become a spy maybe.
pessimizer 5y ago
That's fine, because I only need 90%. I have no interest in passing for native, my intention is to communicate.
- j45 5y ago
  I think a lot of people miss this point. Conversational literacy is a huge step on its own.

by dubeye 5y ago

rtpg 5y ago

There are plenty of people effectively native in multiple languages. It’s not guaranteed (I have that missing part for one language despite having done all of High School and college in it), but i know people who speak perfectly in two languages (usually English+their parents native tongue) I have found that English is a bit weird in that you need obsessively high absorption of like, culture, to execute well, so it’s easier to spot non-native speakers.

FabHK 5y ago
> I have found that English is a bit weird in that you need obsessively high absorption of like, culture, to execute well I'd think that English is not unique there. To speak Chinese at the level of an educated native, I'd say you have learn not only the language, but also the country's history, and have some familiarity with canonical Chinese texts such as the "Four Books and Five Classics" (Confucius, Mencius, etc.), "The Dream of the Red Chamber", etc., to understand idioms such as "四面楚歌" (four sides of Chu song = facing insurmountable difficulty, defeat [1]). As another example, Hong Kong has its own lingo (a variety of Cantonese) that evolves so rapidly that HK people that have been abroad a few years tell me that they note that the language has evolved and shifted when they come back. I'm fairly certain that it is easy to spot non-native speakers in many languages, maybe even easier than in English. [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/四面楚歌 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/四面楚歌
bojan 5y ago
> I have found that English is a bit weird in that you need obsessively high absorption of like, culture, to execute well, so it’s easier to spot non-native speakers. This applies to every language out there, English is certainly not an exception in this aspect.

chki 5y ago

> And I'm afraid that last 0.1% of aquisition is pretty much impossible to obtain deliberately unless you abandon your native language. Even your English, whilst technicaly good, has a couple of flags But those last .1 % are not very useful anyway if you're not living abroad. You want to be able to communicate fluently and not make noticeable mistakes, but it's not necessary to seem like a native speaker. Unless you want to become a spy maybe.

pessimizer 5y ago

That's fine, because I only need 90%. I have no interest in passing for native, my intention is to communicate.

j45 5y ago
I think a lot of people miss this point. Conversational literacy is a huge step on its own.