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There's nothing selfish about not wanting to undergo a medical procedure to help strangers. A vaccine is first and foremost a method for protecting oneself and

by blub 5y ago

There's nothing selfish about not wanting to undergo a medical procedure to help strangers. A vaccine is first and foremost a method for protecting oneself and one's family from disease. The only critical aspect of this situation is that there are kids and people who can't get the vaccine. It would be great if we could protect them and people who work with kids/medical personnel should be obligated to get the vaccine with full reimbursement in case of side-effects. We should absolutely work to have healthier indoors climate through filtering, venting, etc. And I think we should all wear masks when e.g. going to the doctor or in public transport. But none of that will happen, we'll probably continue to spit on each-other and breathe stale air.

johnny53169 5y ago
> There's nothing selfish about not wanting to undergo a medical procedure to help strangers. Not wanting to do something to help others is the definition of selfish, even if it's your right.
- cdstyh 5y ago
  Give me one of your kidneys.
- blub 5y ago
  My replies were throttled and someone beat me to the punch... :-) It's not that simple and a very important factor is what that something is. To give an extreme example, we don't call people that don't donate a kidney to help others selfish, even if the others may die without the kidney. We don't even call those that don't want to donate organs after death selfish. The more accurate statement is therefore that those who get vaccinated (primarily) to help others are selfless. It's good for the rest of us that they exist, but we can't and should not make those that don't want to do this feel guilty, because there's like I mentioned nothing to be guilty of, given the current state of the pandemic. It's probably a good idea to make it mandatory for medical professionals and people working with kids, as long as the government (or even better the vaccine manufacturer) takes responsibility for any and all side-effects. And if the pandemic changes course and vaccines stop working, putting us in an endless cycle of flare-ups and vaccinations - then it would be worth it to consider vaccination a duty for all people.
- forcry 5y ago
  It is dishonest to frame the argument in this way. A better way to see vaccine mandates is that it will remove one of the fundamental checks and measures from capitalism that ensures the consumer get a quality product. If a product become mandated, then the producer have a vastly less incentive to maintain the quality of the product. And this is the real danger. The ability of a consumer to reject a product based on what they see, is the crux of our system of economy, and it cannot be removed or written off, no matter what. But the companies would love to write it off, and point to authorities like CDC, and say, "Hey, look, you are still protected by these agencies", and the proceed to buy them off (or have them already on the pay roll), and in the end, consumer gets fucked.
TheCoelacanth 5y ago
And keeping people who have decided not to get vaccinated out of the workplace is first and foremost a method for protecting oneself and one's family. I'm sorry if someone's decision not to get vaccinated costs them their job, but I have to protect myself and my family.

by blub 5y ago

johnny53169 5y ago

> There's nothing selfish about not wanting to undergo a medical procedure to help strangers. Not wanting to do something to help others is the definition of selfish, even if it's your right.

cdstyh 5y ago
Give me one of your kidneys.
blub 5y ago
My replies were throttled and someone beat me to the punch... :-) It's not that simple and a very important factor is what that something is. To give an extreme example, we don't call people that don't donate a kidney to help others selfish, even if the others may die without the kidney. We don't even call those that don't want to donate organs after death selfish. The more accurate statement is therefore that those who get vaccinated (primarily) to help others are selfless. It's good for the rest of us that they exist, but we can't and should not make those that don't want to do this feel guilty, because there's like I mentioned nothing to be guilty of, given the current state of the pandemic. It's probably a good idea to make it mandatory for medical professionals and people working with kids, as long as the government (or even better the vaccine manufacturer) takes responsibility for any and all side-effects. And if the pandemic changes course and vaccines stop working, putting us in an endless cycle of flare-ups and vaccinations - then it would be worth it to consider vaccination a duty for all people.
forcry 5y ago
It is dishonest to frame the argument in this way. A better way to see vaccine mandates is that it will remove one of the fundamental checks and measures from capitalism that ensures the consumer get a quality product. If a product become mandated, then the producer have a vastly less incentive to maintain the quality of the product. And this is the real danger. The ability of a consumer to reject a product based on what they see, is the crux of our system of economy, and it cannot be removed or written off, no matter what. But the companies would love to write it off, and point to authorities like CDC, and say, "Hey, look, you are still protected by these agencies", and the proceed to buy them off (or have them already on the pay roll), and in the end, consumer gets fucked.

TheCoelacanth 5y ago

And keeping people who have decided not to get vaccinated out of the workplace is first and foremost a method for protecting oneself and one's family. I'm sorry if someone's decision not to get vaccinated costs them their job, but I have to protect myself and my family.