4 ms·

So, what item, that mr. Johnny Average uses daily, will now be banned (or made more expensive, by having to use barely "recyclable" materials), while nothing wi

So, what item, that mr. Johnny Average uses daily, will now be banned (or made more expensive, by having to use barely "recyclable" materials), while nothing will be done about huge industries, and other countries that pollute a lot more? We,ve forbidden plastic bags and replaced them with reusable bags, which contain more plastic, or with cotton ones, tha thave to be reused 20.000times, to make it worth it, compared to plastic bags ( https://qz.com/1585027/when-it-comes-to-climate-change-cotton-totes-might-be-worse-than-plastic/ https://qz.com/1585027/when-it-comes-to-climate-change-cotto... ). We've forbidden straws. So what's next?

pharmakom 5y ago
Plastic bag charge is to prevent fly tipping / littering more than anything else. It definitely encourages bag re-use, including for plastic bags. “Ban” is probably the wrong word. It’s really an artificial price floor of about 5c.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  I see a lot more plastic bottles on the ground than bags. Usually you need a bag to take stuff home, and once there, you use it for trash, and then take the trash to the outside/large trash can. Plastic bottle.. you drink the contents, and some people just throw it away. Some countries have returnable plastic bottles (so at worst, homeless/poor people pick them up, to make some money). Most don't.
simmerup 5y ago
Hopefully policy makers will target both consumers and industry in order to tackle this crisis. Otherwise when we’re talking to our kids, and they’re asking us what we did to stop the climate crisis, all we’ll be able to say is ‘Child, I gave up unlimited free plastic bags for you, what more could I have done?’
- andrepd 5y ago
  I think the point is so far action has been limited to token actions (such as the ridiculous straw thing) targeted at consumers, and no real action targeted at companies.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    Yep, this is exactly my point. Ban straws, and let the industry pollute... people notice, government is "doing something", and in the end, nothing is done. And of course, stuff like this: https://qz.com/690321/leonardo-dicaprio-took-an-outrageous-8000-mile-trip-in-a-private-jet-to-pick-up-an-environmental-award/ https://qz.com/690321/leonardo-dicaprio-took-an-outrageous-8...
Aerroon 5y ago
>while nothing will be done about huge industries But Johnny Average is what all those huge industries are ultimately there for. It all leads to production of goods for the people. Also, straws, plastic bags etc are actually a different issue. Those are about plastic pollution and have little to do with climate change. Also also, plastic pollution is not as big of an apparent problem in the West. Who knows with microplastic contamination though. We might be doing lead pipes 2.0.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  > But Johnny Average is what all those huge industries are ultimately there for. It all leads to production of goods for the people. A lot of consumer behavior today is actually dictated by marketing, both through advertising (one of the largest industries in the world, whose purpose is entirely to distort rational consumption) or through other means (making sure you can sell things every year, by forcefully decommissioning older products, subscription models, cheap disposable parts). The average consumer can't afford to consume less, as almost everything is priced in such a way that they are forced to choose between huge investments in a durable object or continuous consumption of disposable crap - if the option of durable objects even exists. > Also, straws, plastic bags etc are actually a different issue. Those are about plastic pollution and have little to do with climate change. Sure, but the measures taken have been entirely irrelevant - causing slight problems for consumers, with 0 impact on the problem. Straws in particular were a massive PR stunt at a staggering scale.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  Nah, johnny will now buy more expensive, bamboo plastic straws, in plastic packaging, in a plastic box, with multiple boxes in a plastic covered cardboard box, and all of that wrapped in plastic foil. He will also buy a reusable bag, made from much more plastic than single-use ones, and per gram of plastic, wont last as long. Johnny will also be told not to drive his car... by a guy, who went to the interview in his private jet. Media will also praise a kid, who uses a sailing-yacht to travel, because she doesn't want to fly (due to carbon emissions), and in turn, she needs a whole team to operate the boat, which will then have to fly back home with a plane. We also pay a lot of money for recycling our goods, to be then just burned (and just stuff like copper scrapped) in 3rd world countries.
pxue 5y ago
Open up city zoning laws so "local" food actually effing mean local and not within 8h truck shipping distance. Lots of city dead space, roof tops, useless alley ways that can be turned into gardens that provide simple food source

pharmakom 5y ago

Plastic bag charge is to prevent fly tipping / littering more than anything else. It definitely encourages bag re-use, including for plastic bags. “Ban” is probably the wrong word. It’s really an artificial price floor of about 5c.

ajsnigrutin 5y ago
I see a lot more plastic bottles on the ground than bags. Usually you need a bag to take stuff home, and once there, you use it for trash, and then take the trash to the outside/large trash can. Plastic bottle.. you drink the contents, and some people just throw it away. Some countries have returnable plastic bottles (so at worst, homeless/poor people pick them up, to make some money). Most don't.

simmerup 5y ago

Hopefully policy makers will target both consumers and industry in order to tackle this crisis. Otherwise when we’re talking to our kids, and they’re asking us what we did to stop the climate crisis, all we’ll be able to say is ‘Child, I gave up unlimited free plastic bags for you, what more could I have done?’

andrepd 5y ago
I think the point is so far action has been limited to token actions (such as the ridiculous straw thing) targeted at consumers, and no real action targeted at companies.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  Yep, this is exactly my point. Ban straws, and let the industry pollute... people notice, government is "doing something", and in the end, nothing is done. And of course, stuff like this: https://qz.com/690321/leonardo-dicaprio-took-an-outrageous-8000-mile-trip-in-a-private-jet-to-pick-up-an-environmental-award/ https://qz.com/690321/leonardo-dicaprio-took-an-outrageous-8...

Aerroon 5y ago

>while nothing will be done about huge industries But Johnny Average is what all those huge industries are ultimately there for. It all leads to production of goods for the people. Also, straws, plastic bags etc are actually a different issue. Those are about plastic pollution and have little to do with climate change. Also also, plastic pollution is not as big of an apparent problem in the West. Who knows with microplastic contamination though. We might be doing lead pipes 2.0.

tsimionescu 5y ago
> But Johnny Average is what all those huge industries are ultimately there for. It all leads to production of goods for the people. A lot of consumer behavior today is actually dictated by marketing, both through advertising (one of the largest industries in the world, whose purpose is entirely to distort rational consumption) or through other means (making sure you can sell things every year, by forcefully decommissioning older products, subscription models, cheap disposable parts). The average consumer can't afford to consume less, as almost everything is priced in such a way that they are forced to choose between huge investments in a durable object or continuous consumption of disposable crap - if the option of durable objects even exists. > Also, straws, plastic bags etc are actually a different issue. Those are about plastic pollution and have little to do with climate change. Sure, but the measures taken have been entirely irrelevant - causing slight problems for consumers, with 0 impact on the problem. Straws in particular were a massive PR stunt at a staggering scale.
ajsnigrutin 5y ago
Nah, johnny will now buy more expensive, bamboo plastic straws, in plastic packaging, in a plastic box, with multiple boxes in a plastic covered cardboard box, and all of that wrapped in plastic foil. He will also buy a reusable bag, made from much more plastic than single-use ones, and per gram of plastic, wont last as long. Johnny will also be told not to drive his car... by a guy, who went to the interview in his private jet. Media will also praise a kid, who uses a sailing-yacht to travel, because she doesn't want to fly (due to carbon emissions), and in turn, she needs a whole team to operate the boat, which will then have to fly back home with a plane. We also pay a lot of money for recycling our goods, to be then just burned (and just stuff like copper scrapped) in 3rd world countries.

pxue 5y ago

Open up city zoning laws so "local" food actually effing mean local and not within 8h truck shipping distance. Lots of city dead space, roof tops, useless alley ways that can be turned into gardens that provide simple food source