7 ms·

It’s not funny anymore. Far-right extremists’ use of humour

31 points by icare_1er 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
M2Ys4U 5y ago
>This document has been prepared for the European Commission however it reflects the views only of the authors, and the European Commission is not liable for any consequence stemming from the reuse of this publication.
- wrnr 5y ago
  Oh the irony, the commission always says that with every report it payed for, or equity free investment made. It's part of a deliberate strategy of feigning ignorance in order to sidestep any question of its competence or legitimacy.
  - Voloskaya 5y ago
    > the commission always says that with every report it payed for Because when you pay for a report, you are asking a group of people for their opinion on the subject, so you can then read the report and get inform and maybe act. So by very definition it is indeed not their opinion, and not that ironic.
    - wrnr 5y ago
      Stop fucking over people and denying you do so, is this really too much to ask?
  - M2Ys4U 5y ago
    The title of this submission was changed, originally it did claim that this was the EU's position, which is why I posted that quote.
galfarragem 5y ago
"Only the truth is funny" -- Rick Reynolds, comedian
stuaxo 5y ago
This is a good step. A certain green website wasn't always full of racism, this was done deliberately. If you go back further Nick Broomfield did some documentaries in the 90s / early 00s where he went to various white supremacists, even then they were saying their plan was to go mainstream through various tactics, what happened on the green website fits almost exactly with this.
- davidivadavid 5y ago
  Isn't going mainstream through various tactics the goal of every political movement?
rataata_jr 5y ago
Some people have too much time on their hands.
greatgib 5y ago
I'm so pissed off that my European tax money is wasted on financing bullshit like that. But be aware, this is maybe the first sign that "humor" will be the next victim of the "cancel culture" and the current trend in "free speech censorship"...
- the-dude 5y ago
  How much do you pay a year?
  - nudpiedo 5y ago
    The claim was easy: no money on bullshit, we got actual problems that do need resources. Our tax systems are open. Go and check it yourself.
    - tester34 5y ago
      If you believe that manipulation and misinformation on the internet is not an actual problem then I don't know what to say It affected shitton of people about covid/vacciness related stuff It's one of the biggest challenges nowadays
      - nudpiedo 5y ago
        None of that was the topic here. It is about propaganda and how far left tries to not lose the control of the counterculture, and, it is already gone. Counterculture nowadays does not belong to the far left anymore.
      - icare_1er 5y ago
        Iran regime just passed a law "to protect internet users", which pretty much censors everythings, makes VPN use even more difficult, etc. They are pretty much using your own arguments: "misinformation on the internet is an actual problem, let's PROTECT our citizens from it". :)
        5y ago
totetsu 5y ago
didn't the use of humour playbook have its roots in anti oppression movements in eastern Europe?
- nudpiedo 5y ago
  Totally, counterculture nowadays does not belong to the far left anymore and after oppress popular culture with its ideas (else you are cancelled) now they are making a major effort trying to cancell oppositors from the institutions. Same as extreme conservatives did on the 60s.
  - mmarq 5y ago
    Given that the president of the EU commission and the largest coalition in the EU parliament are conservatives and that the EU is evidently not an extreme left institution, I don’t understand why they should care about the extreme left having lost whatever you think they lost.
    - nudpiedo 5y ago
      Weren’t we speaking about the EU? Anyway, look at the statistics from your own country for example the imbalance between university professors between left and right and how that increased in the last 30 years, specially with the cancel culture (bullying or censorship)
      - mmarq 5y ago
        You said: > Totally, counterculture nowadays does not belong to the far left anymore and after oppress popular culture with its ideas (else you are cancelled) now they are making a major effort trying to cancell oppositors from the institutions. Why do you think the European Union cares about counterculture belonging or not to the extreme left, given that the EU has, at least now, a conservative government and a conservative parliament? If they were cancelling anything, shouldn’t they be cancelling the extreme left? On universities, I’m not sure I understand how this is related to the topic at hand nor why I should care, but I wouldn’t assume that what may be true for a few American colleges applies to all universities all over the world.
nudpiedo 5y ago
"This document has been prepared for the European Commission however it reflects the views only of the authors, and the European Commission is not liable for any consequence stemming from the reuse of this publication" Then they shouldn't pretend to represent the European Comission or any of its logos. It's not fun anymore how the far left lobbies pretends to manipulate the public calling names everyone who happens to be at their right: everyone else.
- Voloskaya 5y ago
  > Then they shouldn't pretend to represent the European Comission But they don't? Since, as you even cited, the first thing in the document after the title is a disclaimer that this does not represent the European Commission's view. > [...] or any of its logos. The Radicalisation Awareness Network is part of the European Commission, so any document produced by anyone there will have the European Commission logo on it.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  Nothing in here is "far left". That is entirely your own prejudices that you brought to this discussion, and your own attempts to polarise a discussion that is about fairly objective facts.
  - nudpiedo 5y ago
    that's just your opinion, check it and judge yourself.
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      I did, and what I said stands. You are the one desperately trying to spin this.
nudpiedo 5y ago
The usage of sarcastic humor on the political field has a clear purpose: to disarm oppositors propaganda. And it is by far the most effective weapon against propaganda with no solid philosophical foundations. And that's why the far left is so pissed off, after so many years of monopoly in the internet and having been infiltrated in all levels of culture, universities, media, actors, political lobbies, corporations, etc now they try to play the same cards conservatives from the 60s used in order to defend their acquired status. But the world has changed and new young people now on what side is nowadays counterculture.
cauliflower99 5y ago
Ctrl + f microaggressions. So...it's that kind of paper.
- capableweb 5y ago
  Yes, there is one mention of microaggressions in the paper > Not only repeated exposure but also a lack of resistance within the chan communities reinforces such microaggressions. What is your comment supposed to mean? Is it mentioned too often/too little so the rest of the paper to loose legitimacy, or what is your point? Since I've never heard the term before, I looked it up > Microaggression is a term used for commonplace daily verbal, behavioral or environmental slights, whether intentional or unintentional, that communicate hostile, derogatory, or negative attitudes toward stigmatized or culturally marginalized groups. Seems highly relevant to a paper about extremists use of humor.
  - Hitton 5y ago
    It's bullshit concept used as weapon by proponents of victimhood culture to bash anyone they deem "privileged". Don't you find peculiar that this "little aggression" can be unintentional? And of course deciding what are "hostile, derogatory, or negative attitudes" depends solely on "offended" party. Some examples of "microagressions": avoiding eye contact when speaking to someone, telling someone they are articulate, denying that you are racist, color (race) blindness, assuming someone's gender, asking a girl whether she has a boyfriend (she might be lesbian, you bigot), calling undocumented migrants illegals, saying that someone's name is difficult to pronounce, calling your boss crazy...
Freak_NL 5y ago
I really wish people publishing professional documents would spend a little more time on proper typography. It's not hard to avoid justified text for long runs of text (or use a proper typesetting engine like LaTeX), add a little leading, and use a more suitable font (even Microsoft Office has decent serifs available).
LocalChapter 5y ago
I haven't read the whole thing. However in the recommendations for action section of the document (page 13) isn't anything new in my opinion. > Debunk the harmful content of extremist humour, but only once a certain tipping point has been crossed Debunking from "official" sources is already a meme online known as "Deboonking" and is heavily mocked already. Also Debunking a meme is kinda pointless everyone knows that a meme is exaggerated and is supposed to be humourous. Social media platforms have been "fact checking" memes already. It is like fact checking a joke. It misses the point entirely. > Quarantine extremist humour — and therefore extremist ideas. The first priority is to not amplify messages that might harm broader communities or even directly benefit far-right campaigning. So basically censorship. The issue is that thorny issues aren't being discussed. Censorship will make things worse as it will make it "forbidden knowledge". > Understand the motivations behind why people are sharing certain toxic content, in order to determine points of intervention. Because even good faith discussions around thorny political topics are frequently conflated, obfuscated or censored by governments in Europe. > Build up effective partnerships with social media influencers and progressive communities, which have a strong influence on the views of their followers and supporters. Such alliances serve as much more effective multipliers of their message than trying to inflate content on its own. This is already the norm on social media. > Civic education should also play a key role in terms of dispelling and confronting many of the myths that circulate within these online communities — and beyond. This reads like propaganda. The worst thing you can do to people is propagandise them. If they find out the propaganda is false (and that typically happens sooner or later) they will resent you for it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

31 points by icare_1er 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

>This document has been prepared for the European Commission however it reflects the views only of the authors, and the European Commission is not liable for any consequence stemming from the reuse of this publication.

wrnr 5y ago
Oh the irony, the commission always says that with every report it payed for, or equity free investment made. It's part of a deliberate strategy of feigning ignorance in order to sidestep any question of its competence or legitimacy.
- Voloskaya 5y ago
  > the commission always says that with every report it payed for Because when you pay for a report, you are asking a group of people for their opinion on the subject, so you can then read the report and get inform and maybe act. So by very definition it is indeed not their opinion, and not that ironic.
  - wrnr 5y ago
    Stop fucking over people and denying you do so, is this really too much to ask?
- M2Ys4U 5y ago
  The title of this submission was changed, originally it did claim that this was the EU's position, which is why I posted that quote.

galfarragem 5y ago

"Only the truth is funny" -- Rick Reynolds, comedian

stuaxo 5y ago

This is a good step. A certain green website wasn't always full of racism, this was done deliberately. If you go back further Nick Broomfield did some documentaries in the 90s / early 00s where he went to various white supremacists, even then they were saying their plan was to go mainstream through various tactics, what happened on the green website fits almost exactly with this.

davidivadavid 5y ago
Isn't going mainstream through various tactics the goal of every political movement?

rataata_jr 5y ago

Some people have too much time on their hands.

greatgib 5y ago

I'm so pissed off that my European tax money is wasted on financing bullshit like that. But be aware, this is maybe the first sign that "humor" will be the next victim of the "cancel culture" and the current trend in "free speech censorship"...

the-dude 5y ago
How much do you pay a year?
- nudpiedo 5y ago
  The claim was easy: no money on bullshit, we got actual problems that do need resources. Our tax systems are open. Go and check it yourself.
  - tester34 5y ago
    If you believe that manipulation and misinformation on the internet is not an actual problem then I don't know what to say It affected shitton of people about covid/vacciness related stuff It's one of the biggest challenges nowadays
    - nudpiedo 5y ago
      None of that was the topic here. It is about propaganda and how far left tries to not lose the control of the counterculture, and, it is already gone. Counterculture nowadays does not belong to the far left anymore.
    - icare_1er 5y ago
      Iran regime just passed a law "to protect internet users", which pretty much censors everythings, makes VPN use even more difficult, etc. They are pretty much using your own arguments: "misinformation on the internet is an actual problem, let's PROTECT our citizens from it". :)
      - 5y ago

totetsu 5y ago

didn't the use of humour playbook have its roots in anti oppression movements in eastern Europe?

nudpiedo 5y ago
Totally, counterculture nowadays does not belong to the far left anymore and after oppress popular culture with its ideas (else you are cancelled) now they are making a major effort trying to cancell oppositors from the institutions. Same as extreme conservatives did on the 60s.
- mmarq 5y ago
  Given that the president of the EU commission and the largest coalition in the EU parliament are conservatives and that the EU is evidently not an extreme left institution, I don’t understand why they should care about the extreme left having lost whatever you think they lost.
  - nudpiedo 5y ago
    Weren’t we speaking about the EU? Anyway, look at the statistics from your own country for example the imbalance between university professors between left and right and how that increased in the last 30 years, specially with the cancel culture (bullying or censorship)
    - mmarq 5y ago
      You said: > Totally, counterculture nowadays does not belong to the far left anymore and after oppress popular culture with its ideas (else you are cancelled) now they are making a major effort trying to cancell oppositors from the institutions. Why do you think the European Union cares about counterculture belonging or not to the extreme left, given that the EU has, at least now, a conservative government and a conservative parliament? If they were cancelling anything, shouldn’t they be cancelling the extreme left? On universities, I’m not sure I understand how this is related to the topic at hand nor why I should care, but I wouldn’t assume that what may be true for a few American colleges applies to all universities all over the world.

nudpiedo 5y ago

"This document has been prepared for the European Commission however it reflects the views only of the authors, and the European Commission is not liable for any consequence stemming from the reuse of this publication" Then they shouldn't pretend to represent the European Comission or any of its logos. It's not fun anymore how the far left lobbies pretends to manipulate the public calling names everyone who happens to be at their right: everyone else.

Voloskaya 5y ago
> Then they shouldn't pretend to represent the European Comission But they don't? Since, as you even cited, the first thing in the document after the title is a disclaimer that this does not represent the European Commission's view. > [...] or any of its logos. The Radicalisation Awareness Network is part of the European Commission, so any document produced by anyone there will have the European Commission logo on it.
user-the-name 5y ago
Nothing in here is "far left". That is entirely your own prejudices that you brought to this discussion, and your own attempts to polarise a discussion that is about fairly objective facts.
- nudpiedo 5y ago
  that's just your opinion, check it and judge yourself.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    I did, and what I said stands. You are the one desperately trying to spin this.

nudpiedo 5y ago

The usage of sarcastic humor on the political field has a clear purpose: to disarm oppositors propaganda. And it is by far the most effective weapon against propaganda with no solid philosophical foundations. And that's why the far left is so pissed off, after so many years of monopoly in the internet and having been infiltrated in all levels of culture, universities, media, actors, political lobbies, corporations, etc now they try to play the same cards conservatives from the 60s used in order to defend their acquired status. But the world has changed and new young people now on what side is nowadays counterculture.

cauliflower99 5y ago

Ctrl + f microaggressions. So...it's that kind of paper.

capableweb 5y ago
Yes, there is one mention of microaggressions in the paper > Not only repeated exposure but also a lack of resistance within the chan communities reinforces such microaggressions. What is your comment supposed to mean? Is it mentioned too often/too little so the rest of the paper to loose legitimacy, or what is your point? Since I've never heard the term before, I looked it up > Microaggression is a term used for commonplace daily verbal, behavioral or environmental slights, whether intentional or unintentional, that communicate hostile, derogatory, or negative attitudes toward stigmatized or culturally marginalized groups. Seems highly relevant to a paper about extremists use of humor.
- Hitton 5y ago
  It's bullshit concept used as weapon by proponents of victimhood culture to bash anyone they deem "privileged". Don't you find peculiar that this "little aggression" can be unintentional? And of course deciding what are "hostile, derogatory, or negative attitudes" depends solely on "offended" party. Some examples of "microagressions": avoiding eye contact when speaking to someone, telling someone they are articulate, denying that you are racist, color (race) blindness, assuming someone's gender, asking a girl whether she has a boyfriend (she might be lesbian, you bigot), calling undocumented migrants illegals, saying that someone's name is difficult to pronounce, calling your boss crazy...

Freak_NL 5y ago

I really wish people publishing professional documents would spend a little more time on proper typography. It's not hard to avoid justified text for long runs of text (or use a proper typesetting engine like LaTeX), add a little leading, and use a more suitable font (even Microsoft Office has decent serifs available).

LocalChapter 5y ago

I haven't read the whole thing. However in the recommendations for action section of the document (page 13) isn't anything new in my opinion. > Debunk the harmful content of extremist humour, but only once a certain tipping point has been crossed Debunking from "official" sources is already a meme online known as "Deboonking" and is heavily mocked already. Also Debunking a meme is kinda pointless everyone knows that a meme is exaggerated and is supposed to be humourous. Social media platforms have been "fact checking" memes already. It is like fact checking a joke. It misses the point entirely. > Quarantine extremist humour — and therefore extremist ideas. The first priority is to not amplify messages that might harm broader communities or even directly benefit far-right campaigning. So basically censorship. The issue is that thorny issues aren't being discussed. Censorship will make things worse as it will make it "forbidden knowledge". > Understand the motivations behind why people are sharing certain toxic content, in order to determine points of intervention. Because even good faith discussions around thorny political topics are frequently conflated, obfuscated or censored by governments in Europe. > Build up effective partnerships with social media influencers and progressive communities, which have a strong influence on the views of their followers and supporters. Such alliances serve as much more effective multipliers of their message than trying to inflate content on its own. This is already the norm on social media. > Civic education should also play a key role in terms of dispelling and confronting many of the myths that circulate within these online communities — and beyond. This reads like propaganda. The worst thing you can do to people is propagandise them. If they find out the propaganda is false (and that typically happens sooner or later) they will resent you for it.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]