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The “wait 2 weeks” argument did not work for Florida when they took the lead, nor Texas when they had the first full capacity sporting event, and not India when

The “wait 2 weeks” argument did not work for Florida when they took the lead, nor Texas when they had the first full capacity sporting event, and not India when they were on the “brink of collapse”. Delta is confirmed to be more contagious and less deadly. In a few weeks the numbers will be low regardless of what measures are taken. But the forced vaccination of federal, municipal, and private employees will be given credit. I am not against the vaccine. I am however against governments determining what freedoms their citizens are allowed to have based on what medicines they chose to take. We’ve all seen the disaster with our personal privacy across social media and the internet as a whole. Health is where the line gets drawn.

joshuamorton 5y ago
> Delta is confirmed to be more contagious and less deadly. Sort of, delta is confirmed to be less contagious and less deadly among a (significantly) vaccinated population. It is probably more contagious than the initial variant among an unvaccinated population, yes. But whether or not its more or less deadly, or whether vaccines + improved treatments have reduced the severity/survivability isn't clear. So delta is less deadly in practice at a population level, but it might be more deadly in only the unvaccinated population, or the same, or less. We don't really know.
- josh_today 5y ago
  Agreed and it’s the “we don’t really know” but we’re forcing the vaccine on everyone that’s the problem. What we do know is that vaccinated can still catch and spread covid. The stats of breakthrough cases are skewed due to the CDCs methodology of tracking covid infections among the vaccinated. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/bre... There have been cases of covid infections among enclosed vaccinated groups https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/fully-vaccinated-alaska-cruise-passenger-tests-positive-for-covid.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/fully-vaccinated-alaska-crui... https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31889367/indianapolis-colts-coach-frank-reich-tests-positive-covid-19-being-vaccinated https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31889367/indianapolis-co... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57830617 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57830617
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    > The stats of breakthrough cases are skewed due to the CDCs methodology of tracking covid infections among the vaccinated. I guess, but the CDC isn't the only reliable source of information, and from everything else we see (international studies and natural experiments from things like hospitals testing all arrivals for all causes), the vaccine still has something like a 50-90% reduction in infection rate, depending on the particular variant and study. And beyond that, a 90%+ reduction in sever cases. > There have been cases of covid infections among enclosed vaccinated groups Yes, as the CDC website says, in bold "Vaccine breakthrough cases are expected". What we know is that the vaccines appear to be highly effective at preventing severe cases, and slightly less effective (though still pretty darn good) at preventing infection whatsoever. Bayes rule would suggest that as the majority of people become vaccinated, we'll begin to see a larger and larger share of infections coming from vaccinated individuals. But, we'll also see fewer infections (and fewer deaths!) overall. While we don't know precisely how delta compares to the initial variant, we do know its more infectious, and still quite deadly (from its impact in India). So we do know enough to draw the conclusion that Delta is dangerous, almost certainly more dangerous than the older variants, and we also have data to support the claim that vaccines are more effective immunity against delta than natural infection. That's enough information, or if it isn't, what else would convince you?
_Algernon_ 5y ago
>I am not against the vaccine. I am however against governments determining what freedoms their citizens are allowed to have based on what medicines they chose to take. This is a private company deciding that they don't want to employ you. There are no governments involved here.
- josh_today 5y ago
  https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/status/1419715050529460225?s=20 https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/status/1419715050529460225?s... Governments are very much involved
  - _Algernon_ 5y ago
    >CA will have the strongest state vaccine verification system in the US and will require state employees & healthcare workers to provide proof of vaccination—or get tested regularly. This is clearly different, as it allows testing your way out of getting vaccinated.
    - josh_today 5y ago
      I trust that just as much as we should have trusted “Just two weeks to flatten the curve”
hef19898 5y ago
You are pro-choice then?

joshuamorton 5y ago

> Delta is confirmed to be more contagious and less deadly. Sort of, delta is confirmed to be less contagious and less deadly among a (significantly) vaccinated population. It is probably more contagious than the initial variant among an unvaccinated population, yes. But whether or not its more or less deadly, or whether vaccines + improved treatments have reduced the severity/survivability isn't clear. So delta is less deadly in practice at a population level, but it might be more deadly in only the unvaccinated population, or the same, or less. We don't really know.

josh_today 5y ago
Agreed and it’s the “we don’t really know” but we’re forcing the vaccine on everyone that’s the problem. What we do know is that vaccinated can still catch and spread covid. The stats of breakthrough cases are skewed due to the CDCs methodology of tracking covid infections among the vaccinated. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/bre... There have been cases of covid infections among enclosed vaccinated groups https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/fully-vaccinated-alaska-cruise-passenger-tests-positive-for-covid.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/fully-vaccinated-alaska-crui... https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31889367/indianapolis-colts-coach-frank-reich-tests-positive-covid-19-being-vaccinated https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31889367/indianapolis-co... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57830617 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57830617
- joshuamorton 5y ago
  > The stats of breakthrough cases are skewed due to the CDCs methodology of tracking covid infections among the vaccinated. I guess, but the CDC isn't the only reliable source of information, and from everything else we see (international studies and natural experiments from things like hospitals testing all arrivals for all causes), the vaccine still has something like a 50-90% reduction in infection rate, depending on the particular variant and study. And beyond that, a 90%+ reduction in sever cases. > There have been cases of covid infections among enclosed vaccinated groups Yes, as the CDC website says, in bold "Vaccine breakthrough cases are expected". What we know is that the vaccines appear to be highly effective at preventing severe cases, and slightly less effective (though still pretty darn good) at preventing infection whatsoever. Bayes rule would suggest that as the majority of people become vaccinated, we'll begin to see a larger and larger share of infections coming from vaccinated individuals. But, we'll also see fewer infections (and fewer deaths!) overall. While we don't know precisely how delta compares to the initial variant, we do know its more infectious, and still quite deadly (from its impact in India). So we do know enough to draw the conclusion that Delta is dangerous, almost certainly more dangerous than the older variants, and we also have data to support the claim that vaccines are more effective immunity against delta than natural infection. That's enough information, or if it isn't, what else would convince you?

_Algernon_ 5y ago

>I am not against the vaccine. I am however against governments determining what freedoms their citizens are allowed to have based on what medicines they chose to take. This is a private company deciding that they don't want to employ you. There are no governments involved here.

josh_today 5y ago
https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/status/1419715050529460225?s=20 https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/status/1419715050529460225?s... Governments are very much involved
- _Algernon_ 5y ago
  >CA will have the strongest state vaccine verification system in the US and will require state employees & healthcare workers to provide proof of vaccination—or get tested regularly. This is clearly different, as it allows testing your way out of getting vaccinated.
  - josh_today 5y ago
    I trust that just as much as we should have trusted “Just two weeks to flatten the curve”

hef19898 5y ago

You are pro-choice then?