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[FWIW, I disagree with mandatory vaccination] Unsure about anyone else, but I have been very much taken by surprise by the level of anti-vax and anti-lockdown

[FWIW, I disagree with mandatory vaccination] Unsure about anyone else, but I have been very much taken by surprise by the level of anti-vax and anti-lockdown sentiment during the pandemic. I'd have expected _some_ of the behaviour we're seeing, but not on this scale. In the UK we've seen huge "freedom marches", which are literally mass acts of disobedience against public health policies designed to save the lives of the elderly and vulnerable. It makes me wonder what other public reactions I might be wrong about. For example, will people react to climate change getting worse by actively adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere? Might they drive (then outlawed) combustion engine vehicles in long processions through capital cities? I've recently been reading Obama's memoirs and he talks about how he came to realise people are moved by emotions rather than rational argument, how he was disappointed by that but forced to embrace it. I wonder, therefore, if the poor leadership of some world leaders during the first year of the pandemic is a key factor in the strength of backlash against public health policy we're seeing. Perhaps this situation is an exception caused by a void of decisive emotional argument in the other direction. I don't know, but I do know that I'm surprised.

TulliusCicero 5y ago
It's pretty bizarre. At least in the US, there's been mandatory vaccinations for decades for schooling, and only fringe anti-vaxxers have opposed it. It's largely been considered settled and non-controversial (except to anti-vaxxers in recent years); a basic, common sense public health requirement, not really any different from, say, health codes. Now, apply the same principle to an active pandemic and half the country is losing its mind about it.
- iamstupidsimple 5y ago
  Maybe I can clear this up. The 'freedom marches' as far as I'm aware were mainly focusing on lockdown and vaccine passports. The former is a general liberty issue, but the latter is actually a really sensitive subject in Britain. Since basically forever, it's been a point of principle that British Citizens Do Not and Will Not carry identification around. Even if you're pulled over by the police when driving, you are only required to submit documentation via post within 7 days of being pulled over. Dozens of governments have floated identity cards for nearly the last 50 years, and it was a surefire way to quickly tarnish a party's reputation. Vaccine passports are ID cards on steroids.
gdubs 5y ago
> will people react to climate change getting worse by actively adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere? Rolling Coal is/was a thing and it was exactly that: emitting pollution as a form of anti-environmentalism. See a Toyota Prius behind you? Hit them with a cloud of smog. 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal
- randomsearch 5y ago
  Wow. Exactly the kind of thing I imagined, and yet it _still_ surprises me.

TulliusCicero 5y ago

It's pretty bizarre. At least in the US, there's been mandatory vaccinations for decades for schooling, and only fringe anti-vaxxers have opposed it. It's largely been considered settled and non-controversial (except to anti-vaxxers in recent years); a basic, common sense public health requirement, not really any different from, say, health codes. Now, apply the same principle to an active pandemic and half the country is losing its mind about it.

iamstupidsimple 5y ago
Maybe I can clear this up. The 'freedom marches' as far as I'm aware were mainly focusing on lockdown and vaccine passports. The former is a general liberty issue, but the latter is actually a really sensitive subject in Britain. Since basically forever, it's been a point of principle that British Citizens Do Not and Will Not carry identification around. Even if you're pulled over by the police when driving, you are only required to submit documentation via post within 7 days of being pulled over. Dozens of governments have floated identity cards for nearly the last 50 years, and it was a surefire way to quickly tarnish a party's reputation. Vaccine passports are ID cards on steroids.

gdubs 5y ago

> will people react to climate change getting worse by actively adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere? Rolling Coal is/was a thing and it was exactly that: emitting pollution as a form of anti-environmentalism. See a Toyota Prius behind you? Hit them with a cloud of smog. 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

randomsearch 5y ago
Wow. Exactly the kind of thing I imagined, and yet it _still_ surprises me.