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Bell was under incredible antitrust scrutiny already when they invented transistor. Fear of antitrust was the reason for semiconductor industry getting flying s

by nabla9 5y ago

Bell was under incredible antitrust scrutiny already when they invented transistor. Fear of antitrust was the reason for semiconductor industry getting flying start. Not only in the US but also in Japan, Europe and elsewhere. Imagine Bell getting patent and then manufacturing their own transistors with maybe 1-2 licensed manufacturers for next 25 years or so. https://www.computerhistory.org/siliconengine/bell-labs-licenses-transistor-technology/ https://www.computerhistory.org/siliconengine/bell-labs-lice... >In April 1952, over 100 representatives from 40 companies that had paid a $25,000 patent-licensing fee came for a nine-day Transistor Technology Symposium, including a visit to Western Electric's ultramodern transistor manufacturing plant in Allentown, PA. There were participants from such electronics titans as GE and RCA, as well as from then-small firms like Texas Instruments and Sony. Published by Bell Labs and subsequently by D. Van Nostrand in a revised edition, the proceedings of the first symposium - The Transistor fondly recognized as "Ma Bell's Cookbook" - became the bible of the dynamic semiconductor industry that emerged in the 1950s.

WalterBright 5y ago
That sounds like more of a problem with the patent system than with free markets.
- nabla9 5y ago
  Antitrust exists to ensure that markets function well.
  - nickik 5y ago
    Antitrust historically exists because the market was working to well. The first Antitrust act in the US was about local butcher being disrupted by 'centralized' slaughterhouses (refrigerated train cars). Antitrust was literally created to attempted to prevent that. This was on state level. On the federal level mostly the same thing happened. It was a political tool and it was used by politicians who tried to defend the losing competitors against innovated companies. Standard Oil is the poster-boy for 'look how great anti-trust is' but if you look at what politics was behind it its clear that the losers in the market were pushing it. Despite in reality Standard Oil simply standardizing and improving quality, using innovative logistics system and lowering prices.
    - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
      Of course the losers were pushing it. They were losers because they couldn't compete against a company that controlled pricing and critical infrastructure across multiple strategic sectors - not just oil. SO's "innovations" were mostly just efforts to game the system. The federal courts took a clear-eyed view on this and did not see it kindly.
      - nickik 5y ago
        > SO's "innovations" were mostly just efforts to game the system. That a very reductive view on innovation. Most innovations are not some fancy new technology. They are new way to do deals and partnerships and improve overall process efficiently. That doesn't change the fact that they are real. Interdicting standardized testing and quality control, is an innovation. Making deals with railroads to have an overall more efficient and cheaper distribution model is an innovation. The railroads agree to it as it allowed them to have higher utilization. Would you say for example slaughter houses using refrigerated rail-cars is not a real innovation? Its just evil slaughter houses trying to 'game' the system? At some point in time, doing things a certain way is just more efficient and those companies that can not adopt new processes will be less successful. Had all such innovations been prevented we would be much worse of overall. Often it actually makes sense for most companies to go out of business, as for overall efficiency it doesn't really make sense to be differentiated into 100s of companies. > The federal courts took a clear-eyed view on this and did not see it kindly. No they didn't. Courts didn't create these laws, politicians did. And the enforcement was often very selective and politically driven. The whole history of Anti-Trust went very strongly along with political interest in it until the 70s. Anti-Trust lacked a clear definition and eventually the courts, lead by jurist Richard Posner, created a Anti-Trust definition that requires showing that consumers were harmed. Not only some vague accusations of 'market power'. Under that definition things like Standard Oil would not have gone threw.
      - WalterBright 5y ago
        > SO's "innovations" were mostly just efforts to game the system. Rockefeller put together the trust in 1882. Within 3 years, the consumer cost of a gallon dropped 70%. If it was gaming the system, the consumers of oil were primary beneficiaries. > clear-eyed view Throughout the time of litigation of the anti-trust case against Standard Oil, SO was losing market share because Rockefeller's competitors had figured out to compete with him. See "Titan" by Chernow.

by nabla9 5y ago

WalterBright 5y ago

That sounds like more of a problem with the patent system than with free markets.

nabla9 5y ago
Antitrust exists to ensure that markets function well.
- nickik 5y ago
  Antitrust historically exists because the market was working to well. The first Antitrust act in the US was about local butcher being disrupted by 'centralized' slaughterhouses (refrigerated train cars). Antitrust was literally created to attempted to prevent that. This was on state level. On the federal level mostly the same thing happened. It was a political tool and it was used by politicians who tried to defend the losing competitors against innovated companies. Standard Oil is the poster-boy for 'look how great anti-trust is' but if you look at what politics was behind it its clear that the losers in the market were pushing it. Despite in reality Standard Oil simply standardizing and improving quality, using innovative logistics system and lowering prices.
  - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
    Of course the losers were pushing it. They were losers because they couldn't compete against a company that controlled pricing and critical infrastructure across multiple strategic sectors - not just oil. SO's "innovations" were mostly just efforts to game the system. The federal courts took a clear-eyed view on this and did not see it kindly.
    - nickik 5y ago
      > SO's "innovations" were mostly just efforts to game the system. That a very reductive view on innovation. Most innovations are not some fancy new technology. They are new way to do deals and partnerships and improve overall process efficiently. That doesn't change the fact that they are real. Interdicting standardized testing and quality control, is an innovation. Making deals with railroads to have an overall more efficient and cheaper distribution model is an innovation. The railroads agree to it as it allowed them to have higher utilization. Would you say for example slaughter houses using refrigerated rail-cars is not a real innovation? Its just evil slaughter houses trying to 'game' the system? At some point in time, doing things a certain way is just more efficient and those companies that can not adopt new processes will be less successful. Had all such innovations been prevented we would be much worse of overall. Often it actually makes sense for most companies to go out of business, as for overall efficiency it doesn't really make sense to be differentiated into 100s of companies. > The federal courts took a clear-eyed view on this and did not see it kindly. No they didn't. Courts didn't create these laws, politicians did. And the enforcement was often very selective and politically driven. The whole history of Anti-Trust went very strongly along with political interest in it until the 70s. Anti-Trust lacked a clear definition and eventually the courts, lead by jurist Richard Posner, created a Anti-Trust definition that requires showing that consumers were harmed. Not only some vague accusations of 'market power'. Under that definition things like Standard Oil would not have gone threw.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      > SO's "innovations" were mostly just efforts to game the system. Rockefeller put together the trust in 1882. Within 3 years, the consumer cost of a gallon dropped 70%. If it was gaming the system, the consumers of oil were primary beneficiaries. > clear-eyed view Throughout the time of litigation of the anti-trust case against Standard Oil, SO was losing market share because Rockefeller's competitors had figured out to compete with him. See "Titan" by Chernow.