6 ms·

There are two options here: 1. Keep working, and stop crying about it. 2. Quit Yeah it sucks, but as someone who worked these kind of hours in the military, w

by nhangen 15y ago

There are two options here: 1. Keep working, and stop crying about it. 2. Quit Yeah it sucks, but as someone who worked these kind of hours in the military, without the ability to quit, I don't feel any sympathy. You empower your employer to treat you like this, and there are many industries where this is near the norm.

flocial 15y ago
Or 3. Call the bastards on their bad behavior so other programmers think twice before applying. There's nothing wrong with outing a company that treats their employees like expendables. The gaming industry's had a bad reputation for horrid working conditions for some time. Maybe it's time to wake up.
- nhangen 15y ago
  I don't think it's wrong to go public, but going to the department of labor seems backwards. I'm not familiar with the laws there, but I don't see how this could be regulated outside of a collectively bargained union contract? Edit: I'd like to see a response behind these downvotes. As a business owner and employee, I'm confused.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - latch 15y ago
    What? I'm not sure where you live, but the vaste majority of countries/states/territories/whatever have laws that protect employees with respect to working hours. Your remark is so odd to me, I feel like I either completely misunderstood it or you live in a very sad place. edit: What you are saying to me sounds like "It's odd that you called the police because someone shot you; I really don't see how this could be resolved except for forming a vigilante group"
    - dantheman 15y ago
      The objection is that people should be able to voluntarily interact in any way they see fit. If they want to work lots of hours then there is nothing wrong with this. This is very different than being shot, which is a violation of someones rights.
      - latch 15y ago
        A couple points. First, some of the labour laws that I've seen actually _explicitly_ forbid such agreements because they are afraid it'll lead to abuse...kinda like "agree to work a 20 hour shift or you're fired." The strictest I've seen for this is around minimum wage and minimum vacation time. Simply, there are some rights you can't give away because it would too easily lead to people taking them away. Secondly, sleep is a basic human right. It's possible that you just take it for granted.
        nhangen 15y ago
        That's the problem - you see the employer as a bad guy taking away someone's sleep, but the employee has a choice no? Are you going to argue next that having a job, with perfect hours and perfect pay, is also a right?
        ido 15y ago
        AFAIK in the western world this sort of "freedom" is only available in the USA (if at all, I am not that familiar with the laws over there). In Austria it is illegal[1] not to offer compensation for working overtime, and I'll bet it is the same in NZ as well. [1] http://www.wko.at/ubit/kv/IT-KV_2011.pdf http://www.wko.at/ubit/kv/IT-KV_2011.pdf
    - nhangen 15y ago
      Comparing this to getting shot is a little dramatic don't you think? Again, I'll go to my original point, which is that if you don't like the hours your employer has asked you to work in exchange for the salary that they are paying, then find a new job. I see no need for regulation here, especially in our industry, where there are more jobs than people.
teamonkey 15y ago
> 2. Quit And then what? There aren't that many games jobs in NZ.

by nhangen 15y ago

flocial 15y ago

Or 3. Call the bastards on their bad behavior so other programmers think twice before applying. There's nothing wrong with outing a company that treats their employees like expendables. The gaming industry's had a bad reputation for horrid working conditions for some time. Maybe it's time to wake up.

nhangen 15y ago
I don't think it's wrong to go public, but going to the department of labor seems backwards. I'm not familiar with the laws there, but I don't see how this could be regulated outside of a collectively bargained union contract? Edit: I'd like to see a response behind these downvotes. As a business owner and employee, I'm confused.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- latch 15y ago
  What? I'm not sure where you live, but the vaste majority of countries/states/territories/whatever have laws that protect employees with respect to working hours. Your remark is so odd to me, I feel like I either completely misunderstood it or you live in a very sad place. edit: What you are saying to me sounds like "It's odd that you called the police because someone shot you; I really don't see how this could be resolved except for forming a vigilante group"
  - dantheman 15y ago
    The objection is that people should be able to voluntarily interact in any way they see fit. If they want to work lots of hours then there is nothing wrong with this. This is very different than being shot, which is a violation of someones rights.
    - latch 15y ago
      A couple points. First, some of the labour laws that I've seen actually _explicitly_ forbid such agreements because they are afraid it'll lead to abuse...kinda like "agree to work a 20 hour shift or you're fired." The strictest I've seen for this is around minimum wage and minimum vacation time. Simply, there are some rights you can't give away because it would too easily lead to people taking them away. Secondly, sleep is a basic human right. It's possible that you just take it for granted.
      - nhangen 15y ago
        That's the problem - you see the employer as a bad guy taking away someone's sleep, but the employee has a choice no? Are you going to argue next that having a job, with perfect hours and perfect pay, is also a right?
        ido 15y ago
        AFAIK in the western world this sort of "freedom" is only available in the USA (if at all, I am not that familiar with the laws over there). In Austria it is illegal[1] not to offer compensation for working overtime, and I'll bet it is the same in NZ as well. [1] http://www.wko.at/ubit/kv/IT-KV_2011.pdf http://www.wko.at/ubit/kv/IT-KV_2011.pdf
  - nhangen 15y ago
    Comparing this to getting shot is a little dramatic don't you think? Again, I'll go to my original point, which is that if you don't like the hours your employer has asked you to work in exchange for the salary that they are paying, then find a new job. I see no need for regulation here, especially in our industry, where there are more jobs than people.

teamonkey 15y ago

> 2. Quit And then what? There aren't that many games jobs in NZ.