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> I don't think this analogy holds, there is a difference between beaver and people: the beaver has evolved and performs services in an ecosystem, and that syst

> I don't think this analogy holds, there is a difference between beaver and people: the beaver has evolved and performs services in an ecosystem, and that system has evolved around the beaver within some suitable geological timeframe. Humans are destroying the environment far faster than anything can evolve to. Humans are just a later stage of life's flourishing than beavers: Eukaryotes have more extropy than prokaryotes; Multicelled organisms have more extropy than single celled ones; Complex mulicelled organisms have more extropy than simple ones; and humans (once they invented farming and writing) have more extropy than complex animals. The next stage after that -- the stage we're currently in -- is the industrial revolutuon. The stage after that is the singularity, when AIs will take over. But it's all life, doing what it does: expanding, controlling resources, reproducing, etc.

spywaregorilla 5y ago
Beavers are extremely important parts of their ecosystems. Their dam building behavior is depended upon by many other actors within the ecosystem. They're a keystone species. Humans clear cutting a forest is not part of any larger, stable system. Entropy is a myopic way to frame it
helmholtz 5y ago
Sometimes, it's so difficult to not be full of bitter spite and hatred for humanity when viewpoints like yours exist. Whales lay dying in fishing nets which trap any and all, their companions watch on, suffocating in our acidic oceans, or choking on a plastic bag, sea birds flying hundreds of miles just to be able to feed on scraps, leaving their nests alone nearly the whole day at the mercy of God, delicate insects burnt to a crisp by gender-reveal forest fires, the very cliched polar bear stands on his tiny piece of ice looking in all four directions for a hint of food, a herd of wild elephants gathers in a circle looking down at their pathetic, poached brethren hunted for a small piece of white sticking out of their heads, turtles being turned into mince meat just to make guitar picks, insects being squished to make colored goo, chickens shitting themselves in fear as they're beheading is up next, all while a know-nothing bloviates self-importantly about AI and Singularity and things he has little understanding of. A shame.
- cabalamat 5y ago
  > Sometimes, it's so difficult to not be full of bitter spite and hatred for humanity when viewpoints like yours exist. My viewpoint is simply reality. If you're so full of "bitter spite and hatred", that says something about you.
- bmitc 5y ago
  It truly is disheartening to be a part of a species that imbalances the entire world to its favor, in what is likely to be the short term, with technology. And for what purpose? What purpose do we bring to this world? Look at what we've done to the Southern resident orcas in the Pacific Northwest. Kidnapped, murdered, tortured for pleasure and entertainment, poisoned, starved, deafened, stalked, and then gawked out with loud boats. I can't think of a single thing we've helped them with.
  - cabalamat 5y ago
    > And for what purpose? Is there a purpose to life? Does there have to be? Humans have invented gods to create a purpose, but the gods don't actually exist. But if you're looking for a purpose, I quite like this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/08/17/the-goddess-of-everything-else-2/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/08/17/the-goddess-of-everyth...
    - throwaway984393 5y ago
      Don't we all already know that the purpose to life is to expand and mutate? Which is also the purpose of the universe in general, come to think of it. So I guess the most purposeful being in the universe is a radioactive Joey Chestnut.
- curtainsforus 5y ago
  The whales died in agony before, as did the birds, and those delicate insect bodies are crushed, eaten, and dashed as quickly as they're made. Nature's a beautiful edifice built on the back of hundreds of millions of years of suffering. You could make the argument the most moral thing to do, if you care about the well-being elephants and the turtles and the chickens, is to re-organize it as quickly as is practical and wise.

spywaregorilla 5y ago

Beavers are extremely important parts of their ecosystems. Their dam building behavior is depended upon by many other actors within the ecosystem. They're a keystone species. Humans clear cutting a forest is not part of any larger, stable system. Entropy is a myopic way to frame it

helmholtz 5y ago

Sometimes, it's so difficult to not be full of bitter spite and hatred for humanity when viewpoints like yours exist. Whales lay dying in fishing nets which trap any and all, their companions watch on, suffocating in our acidic oceans, or choking on a plastic bag, sea birds flying hundreds of miles just to be able to feed on scraps, leaving their nests alone nearly the whole day at the mercy of God, delicate insects burnt to a crisp by gender-reveal forest fires, the very cliched polar bear stands on his tiny piece of ice looking in all four directions for a hint of food, a herd of wild elephants gathers in a circle looking down at their pathetic, poached brethren hunted for a small piece of white sticking out of their heads, turtles being turned into mince meat just to make guitar picks, insects being squished to make colored goo, chickens shitting themselves in fear as they're beheading is up next, all while a know-nothing bloviates self-importantly about AI and Singularity and things he has little understanding of. A shame.

cabalamat 5y ago
> Sometimes, it's so difficult to not be full of bitter spite and hatred for humanity when viewpoints like yours exist. My viewpoint is simply reality. If you're so full of "bitter spite and hatred", that says something about you.
bmitc 5y ago
It truly is disheartening to be a part of a species that imbalances the entire world to its favor, in what is likely to be the short term, with technology. And for what purpose? What purpose do we bring to this world? Look at what we've done to the Southern resident orcas in the Pacific Northwest. Kidnapped, murdered, tortured for pleasure and entertainment, poisoned, starved, deafened, stalked, and then gawked out with loud boats. I can't think of a single thing we've helped them with.
- cabalamat 5y ago
  > And for what purpose? Is there a purpose to life? Does there have to be? Humans have invented gods to create a purpose, but the gods don't actually exist. But if you're looking for a purpose, I quite like this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/08/17/the-goddess-of-everything-else-2/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/08/17/the-goddess-of-everyth...
  - throwaway984393 5y ago
    Don't we all already know that the purpose to life is to expand and mutate? Which is also the purpose of the universe in general, come to think of it. So I guess the most purposeful being in the universe is a radioactive Joey Chestnut.
curtainsforus 5y ago
The whales died in agony before, as did the birds, and those delicate insect bodies are crushed, eaten, and dashed as quickly as they're made. Nature's a beautiful edifice built on the back of hundreds of millions of years of suffering. You could make the argument the most moral thing to do, if you care about the well-being elephants and the turtles and the chickens, is to re-organize it as quickly as is practical and wise.