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I find it very odd that there is so much push-back these days on here about this idea that engineers actually need to be able to concentrate and that the typica

I find it very odd that there is so much push-back these days on here about this idea that engineers actually need to be able to concentrate and that the typical modern workplace is the absolute worst possible conditions for this to occur. It's of a piece with the impulse I see so often to also downplay and denigrate the difficulty of doing engineering work.

majormajor 5y ago
It's a question of skill vs talent. Software needs both, but you can practice and get better at the skill aspects. Having the discipline to start something big in the morning despite knowing there is a meeting in the afternoon is absolutely a practicable skill.
- username90 5y ago
  Nah, people falls somewhere on the adhd spectrum and people further in on that will have a harder time focusing when a big thing is coming up. That isn't a skill you train, but a thing you are born with. You can make it look like you are less distracted, and it isn't like managers notice your productivity, but you can't really be less distracted. You can however practice a specific thing so it no longer feels like a big deal. If you have gone to a thousand meetings then having another one wont be distracting. But most software engineers don't do enough management work to get over that hurdle.
dasil003 5y ago
I wouldn't conflate all the different talking points. Environments are different, the number and scope of interruptions are different. No one who knows what they're talking about would debate that engineers need large blocks of uninterrupted time to get anything done. But at the same time, not all software projects can be divided up in such a way that individual engineers can just do their thing without frequent communication. This is the whole art of large scale software development, and it is incredibly difficult to get right. Minimizing overall meeting time so ICs can focus is just one consideration, you also need to make sure the right people have a seat at the table for certain decisions or you run the risk of building entirely the wrong thing. As an engineer you have to fight for your own time, but also trade off against the greater good. If you put your work on a pedestal above everyone else around you (designers and product managers are also ICs that need focus time) then you'll hit a ceiling in terms of the impact you can drive (unless you are a researcher or deep specialist, but those roles are comparatively rare).
jshen 5y ago
I think there are two big flaws in PGs essay. 1. This problem of constant interruptions through email, slack, etc affects everyone. It's extremely arrogant to pretend that it's primarily a problem for the special engineers. (I'm an engineer). 2. The idea that you can't be effective if you don't have half a day free everyday is frankly bullshit, and it gives people a victims mentality if they accept it. Yes, people need uninterrupted time. I assure you that I can code effectively in blocks of 2 hours. It may be slightly less efficient if the only thing that matters is coding, but a lot more matters that pure coding.

majormajor 5y ago

It's a question of skill vs talent. Software needs both, but you can practice and get better at the skill aspects. Having the discipline to start something big in the morning despite knowing there is a meeting in the afternoon is absolutely a practicable skill.

username90 5y ago
Nah, people falls somewhere on the adhd spectrum and people further in on that will have a harder time focusing when a big thing is coming up. That isn't a skill you train, but a thing you are born with. You can make it look like you are less distracted, and it isn't like managers notice your productivity, but you can't really be less distracted. You can however practice a specific thing so it no longer feels like a big deal. If you have gone to a thousand meetings then having another one wont be distracting. But most software engineers don't do enough management work to get over that hurdle.

dasil003 5y ago

I wouldn't conflate all the different talking points. Environments are different, the number and scope of interruptions are different. No one who knows what they're talking about would debate that engineers need large blocks of uninterrupted time to get anything done. But at the same time, not all software projects can be divided up in such a way that individual engineers can just do their thing without frequent communication. This is the whole art of large scale software development, and it is incredibly difficult to get right. Minimizing overall meeting time so ICs can focus is just one consideration, you also need to make sure the right people have a seat at the table for certain decisions or you run the risk of building entirely the wrong thing. As an engineer you have to fight for your own time, but also trade off against the greater good. If you put your work on a pedestal above everyone else around you (designers and product managers are also ICs that need focus time) then you'll hit a ceiling in terms of the impact you can drive (unless you are a researcher or deep specialist, but those roles are comparatively rare).

jshen 5y ago

I think there are two big flaws in PGs essay. 1. This problem of constant interruptions through email, slack, etc affects everyone. It's extremely arrogant to pretend that it's primarily a problem for the special engineers. (I'm an engineer). 2. The idea that you can't be effective if you don't have half a day free everyday is frankly bullshit, and it gives people a victims mentality if they accept it. Yes, people need uninterrupted time. I assure you that I can code effectively in blocks of 2 hours. It may be slightly less efficient if the only thing that matters is coding, but a lot more matters that pure coding.