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Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

ohmyblock 5y ago
Pfizer shouldn't be allowed to state publicly their opinion on this. Huge conflict of interests
- xutopia 5y ago
  How so?
  - ganoushoreilly 5y ago
    There is a strong economic incentive to press for recurring boosters.
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      If they were the ones making the decision I'd have a problem. Just stating their opinion without any attempt to claim it's objective seems... fine. I'd personally be pretty surprised if my government (UK) authorised a 3rd booster dose of the same formula (as opposed to one that adjusted the formula to better target new variants).
    - verst 5y ago
      And unfortunately too many news outlets are reporting whatever Pfizer says as if it were the CDC or impartial scientists when that clearly is not the case. Pfizer worked on boosters before the emergence of the Delta virus and already started pushing for the use of boosters when there was little evidence of significant benefits. It would be great if the news stopped parroting the Pfizer press office.
- barney54 5y ago
  I disagree that they shouldn’t be able to state their option, they should be able to. But no one should believe them or take what they say at face value.
- lmilcin 5y ago
  I fully disagree. This is important topic and they definitely have first hand expert knowledge. It is up to us (meaning our governments) to require proper documentation for this and make our own minds based on it.
  - loceng 5y ago
    And is government currently competent in even knowing what proper documentation looks like? Waiting for anyone competent to confirm or correct this person re: CDC's potentially wholly flawed math: https://roundingtheearth.substack.com/p/defining-away-vaccine-safety-signals https://roundingtheearth.substack.com/p/defining-away-vaccin...
    - lmilcin 5y ago
      If you are incompetent buyer that is kind of your problem. Governments don't have "buyer protection". But, typically, governments have armies of people at their disposal and some of these people are experts that can read and understand documentation. Demand your government to be accountable to find right people to do the right job of checking that documentation provided by Pfizer. It would seem prudent to do this before you sign a contract for another couple billion dollars.
- RONROC 5y ago
  It’s incredible that we even have to state that. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth, full stop. I got the vaccine, and am shocked that I may need to comply with another dose or “booster” shots. I’m trying my hardest to be a team player but I’m incredibly concerned that one side would be OK with “Life-Saving-Vacinne-as-a-Service” for the low cost of x$ per month, for an unknown amount of time, and the other side is cool with ignoring it completely. Who will ultimately be right is anyone’s guess, but with all the stories about bullshit “variants”and vaccinated people still getting fucked, I have a depleted confidence “in the science”. The same “science” that got us in here in the first place via “Gain of Function” research.
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    > It’s incredible that we even have to state that. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth, full stop. How is that bad? When you go to a car dealer, you know he has an incentive to sell to you. Is it bad? No, it just is. It doesn't mean you stop listening to him. You just filter the information to get what you need to make up your own decision. If you distrust the dealer you can go to another dealer but you can also still work with him and maybe bring your own expert, which is popular practice. In the end you need to buy a car and you can pretty much assume ALL dealers have the same incentive to sell to you.
    - mrhands69 5y ago
      You can distrust a car dealer and society will applaud you for doing what's right. If you say you're losing trust in something like an emergency use vaccination, then society will say you're a death cultist.
      - lmilcin 5y ago
        I wish anti-vaxxers stopped trying to insert themselves into every discussion. It is tiring. We are talking about procurement of new vaccines and whether this additional shot is actually helping or whether this is due to the fact that Pfizer is going to benefit from this. What we are not talking about is whether to vaccinate. The case on this is closed and all governments are working towards getting their populations vaccinated because without this they know it would be an either apocalyptic event or forever-dragging crippling restrictions.
- nfw2 5y ago
  That's like saying Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to tell people they should update Windows. Pfizer created the vaccine. Who would know better than them whether a booster is necessary?
- asah 5y ago
  As a public company, they face shareholder lawsuits for *not* disclosing something this "material" to the business.
superkuh 5y ago
It's obvious we need booster vaccinations. But not another intramuscular that only seeps in serum IgG antibodies into the lower lungs. The levels of antibodies in the upper respiratory mucosa are never very high and drop rapidly. Viral infection of the mucosa and shedding still occurs. We need operation warp speed type money for funding the two good intranasal sars-cov-2 vaccine trials going on right now and to start more. Intranasal vaccination after intramuscular will recruit and specialize B and T cells to the upper respiratory mucosa and establish IgA antibodies resident for long periods there. Being intranasally vaccinated after intramuscular could actually stop the spread and end the pandemic. edit: btw, all this has been known about aerosol spread respiratory viruses and human physiology since the 1960s.
- loceng 5y ago
  This same conversation has been trying to be had for existing medication Ivermectin, except little money to be made with it so the industry has been suppressing it and dismissing it nudging government institutions, who seem to rely on what pharma says, to also dismiss/ignore it.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - myko 5y ago
    Actually, no, there just isn't evidence that ivermectin (or hydroxychloroquine before it) are effective at combatting COVID-19. There is a lot of evidence that the vaccines are good at combatting COVID-19 though. https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul... Where did you first hear about using this drug to combat COVID-19, and did they describe the mechanism by which this parasite killing drug would combat the virus?
    - loceng 5y ago
      What's your source refuting all of these studies - c19ivermectin.com ? + Ivermectin mechanism: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011#:~:text=Ivermectin%20binds%20to%20and%20destabilises,normal%2C%20more%20efficient%20antiviral%20response https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016635422.... Quick Google search finds that.
z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
Yes sales... sales from insanely binding contracts which of course say Pfizer is in no way shape or form responsible for anything that goes wrong with highly experimental, largely untested and rushed through drugs with completely unknown long-term side effects... that states companies are not allowed to return or take partial shipments of their vaccines...which PFIZER ITSELF dictates how many units the labs and medical facilities are going to buy. So 33b from using a global pandemic to rig and rip the entire supply chain, medical industry, and taxpayers of countries around the world off to insane levels of profit, all in the name of greed.. And yet here they are, demanding MORE money... And yet people still sit around trying to click two brain cells together wondering why people refuse to get vaccinated, are sick of having this crap shoved down their throats, and further distrust big pharma and the medical industry at large. Can't wait for the big pharma shills here on HN to come crawling out defending these scumbags and big industries and institutional corruption and greed.
swader999 5y ago
Party might be ending for Pfizer if this early report plays out as stated and data shows viral blood titers are being found to have higher loads in the vaccinated vs non vaxxed. It would suggest the worst nightmare for a vaccine, ADE could be happening. From NBC Twitter: New data suggests that fully vaccinated individuals are not just contracting COVID, but could be carrying higher levels of virus than previously understood, facilitating spread, my NBC News colleagues are reporting. New indoor masking guidance expected today. https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/1420024393263206407?s=19 https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/142002439326320640... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhancement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhanceme... (Edit, added note about viral blood tigers being needed for confirmation)
- fakedang 5y ago
  As one of the tweets responding to that asked, where's the study? All I see is a media man trying to do media man things.
  - swader999 5y ago
    The guidance to remask indoors yesterday could be related. But yeah, let's see that data and data from blood titers between these two groups. Press should be asking for timelines on when this is expected to be released.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  If it was ADE wouldn't they be suffering acuter symptoms?
- gowld 5y ago
  What does it mean to compare "loads" of "viral titers"? What is ADE? How does this square with the fact that the disease is making non-vaccinated people far more ill at far higher rates than vaccinated? The tweet says that vaccinated folks "could be carrying higher levels of virus than previously understood", not higher levels than unvaccinated individuals.
jagger27 5y ago
Would they be able to tweak this potential booster shot to better target current variants and their descendants? Is there any need to do so? How much about the current vaccine can possibly be changed without major regulatory hurdles or manufacturing blockers?
- standardUser 5y ago
  Yes, there are already clinical studies underway with altered vaccines and the turn-around on developing these is apparently pretty fast (at least with the mRNA vaccines). I have also read that yes, authorization can happen much faster for vaccines that are slightly altered versions of vaccines that are already granted authorization (but I don't know the details). Here is a random article on the topic that happens to be ovr 2 months old! So this has been going on for a while now... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/tweaked-moderna-vaccine-neutralises-covid-variants-in-trials https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/tweaked-modern...
Panther34543 5y ago
In summary: A.) Pfizer is raking in over $33 billion from vaccine sales. B.) Due to the PREP Act, they are completely immune from lawsuits arising from any form of complications arising from those vaccines. C.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may lose your job[0]. D.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may be barred from normal everyday social activities[1][2]. I can't be the only one who is incredibly uncomfortable about society going down this path. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27986160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27986160 [1]: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italy-widens-green-pass-restrictions-curb-covid-19-surge-2021-07-22/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italy-widens-green-pass... [2]: https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/restaurants/article/San-Francisco-mulls-requiring-proof-of-vaccine-at-16330935.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/restaurants/article/San-Fra...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- nicoburns 5y ago
  C and D seem fine to me. It's necessary to protect everyone else. A and B are the problem. The US government should have limited Pfizer's profit margin, and they should be using the money saved to cover people's medical costs for complications arising from the vaccine (removing the need to sue).
  - k2enemy 5y ago
    I could not disagree more. Pfizer should be able to profit from the vaccine. If the govt steps in and takes away their ability to benefit from the vaccine what incentive is there for bio firms to respond like Pfizer did in the future? Why work on risky and expensive vaccine technologies if, in the unlikely event it is ever needed, you won't have a chance of recouping your costs?
    - vetinari 5y ago
      > Pfizer should be able to profit from the vaccine Government-mandated vaccine from a private supplier. What could possibly go wrong.
deleted 5y ago
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abraae 5y ago
Anti-vaxxers are setting the stage for enormous profits for big pharma by creating the conditions for breeding new variants that will require more big pharma to combat them. I feel my grandkids will grow up in a world quite different from mine, where travel and experiences will be gated and limited by fear of contagious disease. That sucks and didn't need to happen. Thought experiment for anti-vaxxers - what if there was technology that could scan the virus particles coming into your body, and the ones coming out, and identify whether you - yes YOU - were the person responsible for creating a new variant? What if more technology could then detect that the dangerous variant that you incubated had wafted out of your nostrils and into the body of your elderly neighbor, killing her? With your alleged focus on self responsibility, would you take your punishment if you personally were responsible for thousands of deaths?
- e40 5y ago
  They’d probably pivot to say that’s the risk of a free life. Live free or die is the mantra of many of them. Of course it’s their life which is free, not the people they infect. I loved your hypothetical device.
  - _-david-_ 5y ago
    Do you believe we should require the flu vaccine every year?
  - swader999 5y ago
    Everyone is free to get the vaccine and the risk reward profile varies between ages. My body my choice but not for experimental vaccines? Fauci admitted yesterday infection and transmission are still possible in vaccinated. CDC renewed their indoor mask guidance because this is now evident. So if both groups can transmit, what does vax status matter personally to you? They aren't even a large enough size to overwhelm health care in most areas that have access to the vaccine.
- notheretoo 5y ago
  You’re right - this gated world didn’t need to happen. Sure would have been nice if American scenarists and eco health didn’t continue gain of function research after it was outlawed in the us. So uh what about this? https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/10/21-1427_article https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/10/21-1427_article If it’s true the vax causes antibody dependent enhancement and that YOU, as the individual who took the experimental therapy, is producing higher viral loads would you take your punishment if you where responsible for thousands of deaths? Also - what do we call people who are currently vaccinating their children yet refuse the experimental therapy? Clearly they’re not antivaxxers.
programmarchy 5y ago
A very interesting observation [1] was made by Dr John Campbell who noticed a difference between vaccine efficacy in Israel vs UK. In Israel, the doses were spaced 2-3 weeks apart, and the protection against transmissibility has dropped off significantly more than in the UK, where doses were spaced further apart, sometimes over 10 weeks between the first and second dose. His hypothesis was that a longer duration between doses may actually improve long term efficacy. [1] https://youtu.be/wNbs4LCgrcY?t=464 https://youtu.be/wNbs4LCgrcY?t=464
- lamontcg 5y ago
  Simpler explanation on the Israel data: > You’ve probably seen reports from Israel on low vaccine effectiveness in this wave. Is it because of Delta? Waning immunity? We think the reason is mostly that we got the denominator wrong. https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059124700700677 https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059124700700677 > This is what we got wrong. This “wave” started from cities with high vaccination rate and couldn’t “find” unvaccined adults at risk. The denominator we need to use until mid-July is >95% vaccination rate and not the country’s average. https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059139435343876 https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059139435343876
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s5300 5y ago
Man, I was really born just in time to see the U.S. outright dig it's grave from pure unadulterated anti-intellectualism. The CCP may do a lot of fucked up shit, but this century is just going to be completely and utterly dominated by China. I've said quite a lot of bad things about the Chinese government in the past, and may continue to do so until I die... But the U.S. is just fucked, and I very much do want to see humanity succeed and have a chance at exploring our universe to a degree thought impossible throughout our lifetimes. I only see China's method of governing getting us anywhere close to that in the long-term. Maybe they'll show mercy to the research engineers and scientists of the U.S. As for the rest of our inhabitants... it's near impossible to care at this point.
- pengaru 5y ago
  it's not the right time to be sober now the idiots have taken over spreading like a social cancer, is there an answer? Mensa membership conceding tell me why and how are all the stupid people breeding Watson, it's really elementary the industrial revolution has flipped the bitch on evolution the benevolent and wise are being thwarted, ostracized, what a bummer the world keeps getting dumber insensitivity is standard and faith is being fancied over reason darwin's rollin over in his coffin the fittest are surviving much less often now everything seems to be reversing, and it's worsening someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool now angry mob mentality's no longer the exception, it's the rule and im startin to feel a lot like charlton heston stranded on a primate planet apes and orangutans that ran it to the ground with generals and the armies that obeyed them followers following fables philosophies that enable them to rule without regard there's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred majority rule, don't work in mental institutions sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions what are we left with? a nation of god-fearing pregnant nationalists who feel it's their duty to populate the homeland pass on traditions how to get ahead religions And prosperity via simpleton culture the idiots are takin over [x8] -- Idiots Are Taking Over, NOFX, 2003
heisenbit 5y ago
I'm having serious problem with this sort of reporting and Reuters should do better. Focusing on sales data is not helpful for vaccine and it would be better to look at doses / patients treated to measure impact. Sales without looking at expenses are meaningless. Whatever one believes there is a huge cost to this ramp-up. Everything was expedited, expenses secondary. The cost structure and the risk / reward discussion is required as this is anything but free market. Almost all contracts were involving governments and unusual terms. Typical expenses for drugs like marketing and trials were only to a small part paid by the company. The rollout of the primary vaccine is still ongoing. If a booster is found to be desirable then it will require similar production capabilities as the vaccine. The sooner this is know the better and the more cost effective this capacity can be ramped up. Without sufficient planning we may see a conflict of third world vaccines competing with first world booster for production capacity.

Pfizer shouldn't be allowed to state publicly their opinion on this. Huge conflict of interests

xutopia 5y ago
How so?
- ganoushoreilly 5y ago
  There is a strong economic incentive to press for recurring boosters.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    If they were the ones making the decision I'd have a problem. Just stating their opinion without any attempt to claim it's objective seems... fine. I'd personally be pretty surprised if my government (UK) authorised a 3rd booster dose of the same formula (as opposed to one that adjusted the formula to better target new variants).
  - verst 5y ago
    And unfortunately too many news outlets are reporting whatever Pfizer says as if it were the CDC or impartial scientists when that clearly is not the case. Pfizer worked on boosters before the emergence of the Delta virus and already started pushing for the use of boosters when there was little evidence of significant benefits. It would be great if the news stopped parroting the Pfizer press office.
barney54 5y ago
I disagree that they shouldn’t be able to state their option, they should be able to. But no one should believe them or take what they say at face value.
lmilcin 5y ago
I fully disagree. This is important topic and they definitely have first hand expert knowledge. It is up to us (meaning our governments) to require proper documentation for this and make our own minds based on it.
- loceng 5y ago
  And is government currently competent in even knowing what proper documentation looks like? Waiting for anyone competent to confirm or correct this person re: CDC's potentially wholly flawed math: https://roundingtheearth.substack.com/p/defining-away-vaccine-safety-signals https://roundingtheearth.substack.com/p/defining-away-vaccin...
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    If you are incompetent buyer that is kind of your problem. Governments don't have "buyer protection". But, typically, governments have armies of people at their disposal and some of these people are experts that can read and understand documentation. Demand your government to be accountable to find right people to do the right job of checking that documentation provided by Pfizer. It would seem prudent to do this before you sign a contract for another couple billion dollars.
RONROC 5y ago
It’s incredible that we even have to state that. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth, full stop. I got the vaccine, and am shocked that I may need to comply with another dose or “booster” shots. I’m trying my hardest to be a team player but I’m incredibly concerned that one side would be OK with “Life-Saving-Vacinne-as-a-Service” for the low cost of x$ per month, for an unknown amount of time, and the other side is cool with ignoring it completely. Who will ultimately be right is anyone’s guess, but with all the stories about bullshit “variants”and vaccinated people still getting fucked, I have a depleted confidence “in the science”. The same “science” that got us in here in the first place via “Gain of Function” research.
- lmilcin 5y ago
  > It’s incredible that we even have to state that. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth, full stop. How is that bad? When you go to a car dealer, you know he has an incentive to sell to you. Is it bad? No, it just is. It doesn't mean you stop listening to him. You just filter the information to get what you need to make up your own decision. If you distrust the dealer you can go to another dealer but you can also still work with him and maybe bring your own expert, which is popular practice. In the end you need to buy a car and you can pretty much assume ALL dealers have the same incentive to sell to you.
  - mrhands69 5y ago
    You can distrust a car dealer and society will applaud you for doing what's right. If you say you're losing trust in something like an emergency use vaccination, then society will say you're a death cultist.
    - lmilcin 5y ago
      I wish anti-vaxxers stopped trying to insert themselves into every discussion. It is tiring. We are talking about procurement of new vaccines and whether this additional shot is actually helping or whether this is due to the fact that Pfizer is going to benefit from this. What we are not talking about is whether to vaccinate. The case on this is closed and all governments are working towards getting their populations vaccinated because without this they know it would be an either apocalyptic event or forever-dragging crippling restrictions.
nfw2 5y ago
That's like saying Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to tell people they should update Windows. Pfizer created the vaccine. Who would know better than them whether a booster is necessary?
asah 5y ago
As a public company, they face shareholder lawsuits for *not* disclosing something this "material" to the business.

It's obvious we need booster vaccinations. But not another intramuscular that only seeps in serum IgG antibodies into the lower lungs. The levels of antibodies in the upper respiratory mucosa are never very high and drop rapidly. Viral infection of the mucosa and shedding still occurs. We need operation warp speed type money for funding the two good intranasal sars-cov-2 vaccine trials going on right now and to start more. Intranasal vaccination after intramuscular will recruit and specialize B and T cells to the upper respiratory mucosa and establish IgA antibodies resident for long periods there. Being intranasally vaccinated after intramuscular could actually stop the spread and end the pandemic. edit: btw, all this has been known about aerosol spread respiratory viruses and human physiology since the 1960s.

loceng 5y ago
This same conversation has been trying to be had for existing medication Ivermectin, except little money to be made with it so the industry has been suppressing it and dismissing it nudging government institutions, who seem to rely on what pharma says, to also dismiss/ignore it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- myko 5y ago
  Actually, no, there just isn't evidence that ivermectin (or hydroxychloroquine before it) are effective at combatting COVID-19. There is a lot of evidence that the vaccines are good at combatting COVID-19 though. https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul... Where did you first hear about using this drug to combat COVID-19, and did they describe the mechanism by which this parasite killing drug would combat the virus?
  - loceng 5y ago
    What's your source refuting all of these studies - c19ivermectin.com ? + Ivermectin mechanism: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011#:~:text=Ivermectin%20binds%20to%20and%20destabilises,normal%2C%20more%20efficient%20antiviral%20response https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016635422.... Quick Google search finds that.

z3ncyberpunk 5y ago

Yes sales... sales from insanely binding contracts which of course say Pfizer is in no way shape or form responsible for anything that goes wrong with highly experimental, largely untested and rushed through drugs with completely unknown long-term side effects... that states companies are not allowed to return or take partial shipments of their vaccines...which PFIZER ITSELF dictates how many units the labs and medical facilities are going to buy. So 33b from using a global pandemic to rig and rip the entire supply chain, medical industry, and taxpayers of countries around the world off to insane levels of profit, all in the name of greed.. And yet here they are, demanding MORE money... And yet people still sit around trying to click two brain cells together wondering why people refuse to get vaccinated, are sick of having this crap shoved down their throats, and further distrust big pharma and the medical industry at large. Can't wait for the big pharma shills here on HN to come crawling out defending these scumbags and big industries and institutional corruption and greed.

swader999 5y ago

Party might be ending for Pfizer if this early report plays out as stated and data shows viral blood titers are being found to have higher loads in the vaccinated vs non vaxxed. It would suggest the worst nightmare for a vaccine, ADE could be happening. From NBC Twitter: New data suggests that fully vaccinated individuals are not just contracting COVID, but could be carrying higher levels of virus than previously understood, facilitating spread, my NBC News colleagues are reporting. New indoor masking guidance expected today. https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/1420024393263206407?s=19 https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/142002439326320640... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhancement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhanceme... (Edit, added note about viral blood tigers being needed for confirmation)

fakedang 5y ago
As one of the tweets responding to that asked, where's the study? All I see is a media man trying to do media man things.
- swader999 5y ago
  The guidance to remask indoors yesterday could be related. But yeah, let's see that data and data from blood titers between these two groups. Press should be asking for timelines on when this is expected to be released.
selimthegrim 5y ago
If it was ADE wouldn't they be suffering acuter symptoms?
gowld 5y ago
What does it mean to compare "loads" of "viral titers"? What is ADE? How does this square with the fact that the disease is making non-vaccinated people far more ill at far higher rates than vaccinated? The tweet says that vaccinated folks "could be carrying higher levels of virus than previously understood", not higher levels than unvaccinated individuals.

jagger27 5y ago

Would they be able to tweak this potential booster shot to better target current variants and their descendants? Is there any need to do so? How much about the current vaccine can possibly be changed without major regulatory hurdles or manufacturing blockers?

standardUser 5y ago
Yes, there are already clinical studies underway with altered vaccines and the turn-around on developing these is apparently pretty fast (at least with the mRNA vaccines). I have also read that yes, authorization can happen much faster for vaccines that are slightly altered versions of vaccines that are already granted authorization (but I don't know the details). Here is a random article on the topic that happens to be ovr 2 months old! So this has been going on for a while now... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/tweaked-moderna-vaccine-neutralises-covid-variants-in-trials https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/tweaked-modern...

Panther34543 5y ago

In summary: A.) Pfizer is raking in over $33 billion from vaccine sales. B.) Due to the PREP Act, they are completely immune from lawsuits arising from any form of complications arising from those vaccines. C.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may lose your job[0]. D.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may be barred from normal everyday social activities[1][2]. I can't be the only one who is incredibly uncomfortable about society going down this path. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27986160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27986160 [1]: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italy-widens-green-pass-restrictions-curb-covid-19-surge-2021-07-22/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italy-widens-green-pass... [2]: https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/restaurants/article/San-Francisco-mulls-requiring-proof-of-vaccine-at-16330935.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/restaurants/article/San-Fra...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nicoburns 5y ago
C and D seem fine to me. It's necessary to protect everyone else. A and B are the problem. The US government should have limited Pfizer's profit margin, and they should be using the money saved to cover people's medical costs for complications arising from the vaccine (removing the need to sue).
- k2enemy 5y ago
  I could not disagree more. Pfizer should be able to profit from the vaccine. If the govt steps in and takes away their ability to benefit from the vaccine what incentive is there for bio firms to respond like Pfizer did in the future? Why work on risky and expensive vaccine technologies if, in the unlikely event it is ever needed, you won't have a chance of recouping your costs?
  - vetinari 5y ago
    > Pfizer should be able to profit from the vaccine Government-mandated vaccine from a private supplier. What could possibly go wrong.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

abraae 5y ago

Anti-vaxxers are setting the stage for enormous profits for big pharma by creating the conditions for breeding new variants that will require more big pharma to combat them. I feel my grandkids will grow up in a world quite different from mine, where travel and experiences will be gated and limited by fear of contagious disease. That sucks and didn't need to happen. Thought experiment for anti-vaxxers - what if there was technology that could scan the virus particles coming into your body, and the ones coming out, and identify whether you - yes YOU - were the person responsible for creating a new variant? What if more technology could then detect that the dangerous variant that you incubated had wafted out of your nostrils and into the body of your elderly neighbor, killing her? With your alleged focus on self responsibility, would you take your punishment if you personally were responsible for thousands of deaths?

e40 5y ago
They’d probably pivot to say that’s the risk of a free life. Live free or die is the mantra of many of them. Of course it’s their life which is free, not the people they infect. I loved your hypothetical device.
- _-david-_ 5y ago
  Do you believe we should require the flu vaccine every year?
- swader999 5y ago
  Everyone is free to get the vaccine and the risk reward profile varies between ages. My body my choice but not for experimental vaccines? Fauci admitted yesterday infection and transmission are still possible in vaccinated. CDC renewed their indoor mask guidance because this is now evident. So if both groups can transmit, what does vax status matter personally to you? They aren't even a large enough size to overwhelm health care in most areas that have access to the vaccine.
notheretoo 5y ago
You’re right - this gated world didn’t need to happen. Sure would have been nice if American scenarists and eco health didn’t continue gain of function research after it was outlawed in the us. So uh what about this? https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/10/21-1427_article https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/10/21-1427_article If it’s true the vax causes antibody dependent enhancement and that YOU, as the individual who took the experimental therapy, is producing higher viral loads would you take your punishment if you where responsible for thousands of deaths? Also - what do we call people who are currently vaccinating their children yet refuse the experimental therapy? Clearly they’re not antivaxxers.

programmarchy 5y ago

A very interesting observation [1] was made by Dr John Campbell who noticed a difference between vaccine efficacy in Israel vs UK. In Israel, the doses were spaced 2-3 weeks apart, and the protection against transmissibility has dropped off significantly more than in the UK, where doses were spaced further apart, sometimes over 10 weeks between the first and second dose. His hypothesis was that a longer duration between doses may actually improve long term efficacy. [1] https://youtu.be/wNbs4LCgrcY?t=464 https://youtu.be/wNbs4LCgrcY?t=464

lamontcg 5y ago
Simpler explanation on the Israel data: > You’ve probably seen reports from Israel on low vaccine effectiveness in this wave. Is it because of Delta? Waning immunity? We think the reason is mostly that we got the denominator wrong. https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059124700700677 https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059124700700677 > This is what we got wrong. This “wave” started from cities with high vaccination rate and couldn’t “find” unvaccined adults at risk. The denominator we need to use until mid-July is >95% vaccination rate and not the country’s average. https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059139435343876 https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059139435343876

deleted 5y ago

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s5300 5y ago

Man, I was really born just in time to see the U.S. outright dig it's grave from pure unadulterated anti-intellectualism. The CCP may do a lot of fucked up shit, but this century is just going to be completely and utterly dominated by China. I've said quite a lot of bad things about the Chinese government in the past, and may continue to do so until I die... But the U.S. is just fucked, and I very much do want to see humanity succeed and have a chance at exploring our universe to a degree thought impossible throughout our lifetimes. I only see China's method of governing getting us anywhere close to that in the long-term. Maybe they'll show mercy to the research engineers and scientists of the U.S. As for the rest of our inhabitants... it's near impossible to care at this point.

pengaru 5y ago
it's not the right time to be sober now the idiots have taken over spreading like a social cancer, is there an answer? Mensa membership conceding tell me why and how are all the stupid people breeding Watson, it's really elementary the industrial revolution has flipped the bitch on evolution the benevolent and wise are being thwarted, ostracized, what a bummer the world keeps getting dumber insensitivity is standard and faith is being fancied over reason darwin's rollin over in his coffin the fittest are surviving much less often now everything seems to be reversing, and it's worsening someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool now angry mob mentality's no longer the exception, it's the rule and im startin to feel a lot like charlton heston stranded on a primate planet apes and orangutans that ran it to the ground with generals and the armies that obeyed them followers following fables philosophies that enable them to rule without regard there's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred majority rule, don't work in mental institutions sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions what are we left with? a nation of god-fearing pregnant nationalists who feel it's their duty to populate the homeland pass on traditions how to get ahead religions And prosperity via simpleton culture the idiots are takin over [x8] -- Idiots Are Taking Over, NOFX, 2003

heisenbit 5y ago

I'm having serious problem with this sort of reporting and Reuters should do better. Focusing on sales data is not helpful for vaccine and it would be better to look at doses / patients treated to measure impact. Sales without looking at expenses are meaningless. Whatever one believes there is a huge cost to this ramp-up. Everything was expedited, expenses secondary. The cost structure and the risk / reward discussion is required as this is anything but free market. Almost all contracts were involving governments and unusual terms. Typical expenses for drugs like marketing and trials were only to a small part paid by the company. The rollout of the primary vaccine is still ongoing. If a booster is found to be desirable then it will require similar production capabilities as the vaccine. The sooner this is know the better and the more cost effective this capacity can be ramped up. Without sufficient planning we may see a conflict of third world vaccines competing with first world booster for production capacity.