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> Surely there are other EV efforts that would benefit from Toyota's manufacturing prowess and capacity. They are not actually that exceptional anymore. At bes
by nickik 5y ago
> Surely there are other EV efforts that would benefit from Toyota's manufacturing prowess and capacity.
They are not actually that exceptional anymore. At best they are marginally better.
Tesla new architecture of structural cells in a pack connected to massive castings is far better then Toyota EV have.
> Solid hydrogen fuels will be the next wave.
I really don't think that will be the cast.
> Imagine we hit "peak" Li-ion around 2030, producing 75 tWh annually. (Amazing, right?)
> From their website: Storage is 30% lighter, 7% smaller, and 17% less expensive than Lithium-ion battery per kWh.
By the time this technology is even remotely feasible. Li-Air, Li-Sulfer batteries and a whole bunch of other potential chemistries could be ready. All these more advanced chemistries can beat these advantages without issue.
Li-Sulfer battery could be 2-4x as dense ad current LiIon far smaller and far cheaper.
Even current High Nickel Cathode-Silicon Anode that will roll into the market will beat the numbers advertised by the company.
Why would anybody go refuel with solid hydrogen when you can have better range then Tesla Model S with a battery small battery pack you can put in your trunk and a tiny powerful EV motor?
A car based on the technology is simply worst along every single dimension.
- specialist 5y agoI agree with you that betting against lithium is dumb. The ceiling is probably a lot higher yet. I forget the rationale for why Toyota (and by extension Japan) bet on hydrogen. Probably something to do with access to resources. Constraints that apply to many economies. We simply have to get off fossil fuels. Zero carbon will involve hydrogen. Maybe not personal transportation. But definitely agriculture. And maybe manufacturing, heavy transportation. At some point we'll have excess electricity. Using that to produce methane (carbon capture) and ammonia (replace fossil fuels) has to happen. Then we'll have abundant cheap hydrogen. Maybe not solid hydrogen fuel cells. Maybe ammonia is practical enough. Optimistic me knows someone(s) will do something useful.
- Hypx_ 5y agoHydrogen is simple a better element to build a battery around than lithium. That and more availability and less dependency on rare elements.
- Hypx_ 5y agoA hydrogen fuel cell is the highest energy density battery possible. It doesn't how more advanced li-ion or a variant of it gets, hydrogen fuel cells will still have a higher energy density. Furthermore, by the time you're talking about metal-air batteries you are basically build a fuel cell but with metals. Which is to say you're just building fuel cells that are fundamentally inferior than something that already exist. We have basically created an inverted worldview. In reality, the li-ion battery is fundamentally inferior to hydrogen fuel cells, and any attempt to advance EV technology will inevitably produce a hydrogen fuel cell powered car.
- nickik 5y agoGood luck betting on that. But show me the tech because: > From their website: Storage is 30% lighter, 7% smaller, and 17% less expensive than Lithium-ion battery per kWh. This is nonsense that wont happen.
- Hypx_ 5y agoCurrent fuel cell tech with compressed hydrogen has an energy density of above 1,000 Wh/kg. It's already far beyond what li-ion can provide.
- nickik 5y agoLets compare the tech when its actually in a vehicle and being sold at a few 1000 a year at least. And then compare the whole system and end to end energy efficiency for society.