4 ms·

I have often wondered if it wouldn't be cheaper for the government to pay for the occasional lost cattle instead of costly rehabilitation. Of course there would

by Aissen 5y ago

I have often wondered if it wouldn't be cheaper for the government to pay for the occasional lost cattle instead of costly rehabilitation. Of course there would need to be safeguards in place to prevent abuse of the mechanism, and to prevent predators from getting used to easy preys.

WalterBright 5y ago
I've proposed this many times, but the idea gets no traction. I don't really know why. I bet paying for a cow now and then would be even cheaper than paying government hunters to use helicopters, etc., to hunt the wolves. It's an appropriate use of tax money.
- Someone 5y ago
  https://www.mda.state.mn.us/business-dev-loans-grants/wolf-depredation-compensation https://www.mda.state.mn.us/business-dev-loans-grants/wolf-d...: “the 1977 Minnesota Legislature authorized the Minnesota Department of Agriculture (MDA) to reimburse livestock owners for losses caused by wolves” Reading https://www.minnpost.com/environment/2020/02/heres-how-much-minnesota-has-paid-out-for-wolf-kills-of-livestock-over-the-last-two-decades/ https://www.minnpost.com/environment/2020/02/heres-how-much-..., that gets around 100 claims per year, for a payout of about $100,000. The EU has a similar program (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46153727 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46153727)
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Sounds like a good program. In Washington State, the newspaper articles on it always present it as one of: 1. the state sends out the helicopters and gunmen 2. the rancher eats the cost of the dead cows
    - Someone 5y ago
      And yet, there’s https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/at-risk/species-recovery/gray-wolf/compensation https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/at-risk/species-recover.... I wouldn’t know whether that compensation is fair or how bureaucratic the procedure is.
- at_a_remove 5y ago
  I wonder how vulnerable that is to the Cobra Effect.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Any and all government payment programs are vulnerable to that.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
Me too. Compared to all the other subsidies agriculture receives worldwide this would probably be pretty small. One problem with cattle is that they are being held in one place, can’t escape which makes them easy and reliable prey . So once a predator has figured that out they will come back more often. I have read about people having good success with dogs that are trained to confront predators like mountain lions and bears so they won’t come back.
ianai 5y ago
Or, and this is just a personal opinion, but the world could stand to lose some meat production. We could give them a stipend for moving away from ranching to protein production through plants or other goods. I know this is controversial, but meat does require orders of magnitude more water and resources and doesn’t seem reflective in the revenue realized. Edit-but definitely start by paying them for whatever wolves eat.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  The wide ranging public pasture ranchers aren't where the biggest ethical problems are in meat production, and wolves aren't generally an issue with factory farming. Let's pump the brakes on torture box meat before we start trying to solve something many people don't even consider a problem (I believe ranching and free range meat are an almost unmitigated good. )

by Aissen 5y ago

WalterBright 5y ago

I've proposed this many times, but the idea gets no traction. I don't really know why. I bet paying for a cow now and then would be even cheaper than paying government hunters to use helicopters, etc., to hunt the wolves. It's an appropriate use of tax money.

Someone 5y ago
https://www.mda.state.mn.us/business-dev-loans-grants/wolf-depredation-compensation https://www.mda.state.mn.us/business-dev-loans-grants/wolf-d...: “the 1977 Minnesota Legislature authorized the Minnesota Department of Agriculture (MDA) to reimburse livestock owners for losses caused by wolves” Reading https://www.minnpost.com/environment/2020/02/heres-how-much-minnesota-has-paid-out-for-wolf-kills-of-livestock-over-the-last-two-decades/ https://www.minnpost.com/environment/2020/02/heres-how-much-..., that gets around 100 claims per year, for a payout of about $100,000. The EU has a similar program (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46153727 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46153727)
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Sounds like a good program. In Washington State, the newspaper articles on it always present it as one of: 1. the state sends out the helicopters and gunmen 2. the rancher eats the cost of the dead cows
  - Someone 5y ago
    And yet, there’s https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/at-risk/species-recovery/gray-wolf/compensation https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/at-risk/species-recover.... I wouldn’t know whether that compensation is fair or how bureaucratic the procedure is.
at_a_remove 5y ago
I wonder how vulnerable that is to the Cobra Effect.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Any and all government payment programs are vulnerable to that.

spaetzleesser 5y ago

Me too. Compared to all the other subsidies agriculture receives worldwide this would probably be pretty small. One problem with cattle is that they are being held in one place, can’t escape which makes them easy and reliable prey . So once a predator has figured that out they will come back more often. I have read about people having good success with dogs that are trained to confront predators like mountain lions and bears so they won’t come back.

ianai 5y ago

Or, and this is just a personal opinion, but the world could stand to lose some meat production. We could give them a stipend for moving away from ranching to protein production through plants or other goods. I know this is controversial, but meat does require orders of magnitude more water and resources and doesn’t seem reflective in the revenue realized. Edit-but definitely start by paying them for whatever wolves eat.

robbedpeter 5y ago
The wide ranging public pasture ranchers aren't where the biggest ethical problems are in meat production, and wolves aren't generally an issue with factory farming. Let's pump the brakes on torture box meat before we start trying to solve something many people don't even consider a problem (I believe ranching and free range meat are an almost unmitigated good. )