6 ms·

IPv6 Watch

148 points by DanAtC 5y ago

Naac 5y ago
That table isn't very helpful. What does it mean for Arch Linux to have IPv6 support? When you say "Amazon" doesn't have IPv6 support, do you mean AWS, the retail store? It would be better if instead of linking to say, archlinux.org, you link to the actual page describing what specifically about Arch is IPv6, same for all the other endpoints. I would also replace the support sentence with a green/yellow/red color checkbox, and get rid of the twitter link.
- capableweb 5y ago
  Link to the source is in the bottom of the page. hosts: - www.archlinux.org - aur.archlinux.org https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/bd581ac70b900ba0c1c38d9dbc06d0ae80832f91/conf.yaml#L56-L62 https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/bd581ac70b900ba0c1c... hosts: - amazon.com - www.amazon.com https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/bd581ac70b900ba0c1c38d9dbc06d0ae80832f91/conf.yaml#L41-L47 https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/bd581ac70b900ba0c1c... Generally, when people write "Amazon" they mean the store (amazon.com) and when people write "AWS" they are referring to the infrastructure provider. I agree that the URLs being tested should be visible on the page, so you don't have to lookup the source. With that said, not sure how useful it is to say that (aur.)archlinux.org has IPv6 enabled, what you really care about is the repositories and so on, but those are all spread out so it'll be hard to test all of them. At least could test the official mirrors.
kd913 5y ago
How accurate is this? Steam I know has some ipv6 support for downloads whilst here it says it has no support at all.
- ntrz 5y ago
  Seems like it tests a limited list[0] of domains associated with the site or service, with the final result based on a check of their DNS records. For Steam, looks like it only checks <store.steampowered.com>, <steamcommunity.com>, and <help.steampowered.com>. It'd be nice if the site provided an explanation of the process, maybe with some way to expand a particular entry and see which associated domains were tested and which succeeded/failed. [0] https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/master/conf.yaml https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/master/conf.yaml
- pfranz 5y ago
  Like another commenter mentioned, it would be nice if there was a detail page showing what no, partial, or full support means. I plugged a few of these into https://ipv6-test.com/validate.php https://ipv6-test.com/validate.php (a random site I found) and store.steampowered.com has no AAAA record, twitter.com has no AAAA record (this site says it has partial support), www.ubuntu.com has an AAAA DNS record, an IPv6 webserver, but not an IPv6 DNS server (this site says its supported).
lovecg 5y ago
There’s probably a good reason for it, but I’ve never understood why IPv6 couldn’t be fully backwards compatible. Then there would be no need to migrate - everyone would be already on IPv6 by definition.
- bejelentkezni 5y ago
  If I recall correctly, ipv6 addresses beginning with 0::0:ffff are mapped 1-to-1 with ipv4 addresses.
  - lovecg 5y ago
    I’m mostly still annoyed about the colon. Come on, ip:port is a pretty widely used convention people! The number of parsing bugs I had to fix with the migration…
    - fulafel 5y ago
      On the plus side the schedule was reasonable, you had time since the 1990s :)
      - lovecg 5y ago
        The flip side is job security so it’s not all bad :)
    - Dagger2 5y ago
      It is today, but what about at the time it was picked? Software from that era (e.g. telnet) take their hostname/service arguments as two strings (e.g. `telnet 127.1 ssh`). I believe ip:port comes from URLs, the RFC for which was published at the end of 1994, which is about the same time that v6 was being developed. So it's not clear that the fault isn't on the URL side, or on the side of software using URL conventions when they're not using URLs. Note that staying with "." wasn't an option, due to ambiguity with DNS. (Consider something like "2001.db8.3.4.5.6.7.be": is that an IP or a hostname under .be?)
- 5y ago
obedm 5y ago
Can someone explain to me what does IPv6 offer that's IPv4 doesn't? Apart from way more addresses. A good article would suffice.
- loeg 5y ago
  > A good article would suffice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6#Main_features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6#Main_features
  - peanut-walrus 5y ago
    None of that is actually true though? > It simplifies aspects of address configuration I assume this is referring to SLAAC? SLAAC is...fine. Most managed networks will want the extra control offered by DHCP though and DHCPv6 is currently in a much much worse state than DHCPv4. Also a single interface having at least 2, usually 3 or more (link-local, autogenerated, privacy) v6 addresses on the network is definitely not simpler in any way. Also clients still have not figured out which configuration methods they should actually support - Linux network managers generally default to SLAAC-only and DHCP needs to be explicitly enabled, for Windows setting managed flag in RA works, I believe. Android does not support DCHPv6 at all. > network renumbering and router announcements when changing network connectivity providers. Absolutely not. Network renumbering is a breeze when all you need to change is the public address of your gateway and the local network keeps the same local addresses. Prefix translation is awful and no firewalls have good tools to handle changing your v6 prefix. > It simplifies processing of packets in routers by placing the responsibility for packet fragmentation into the end points. With respect to fragmentation - yes, but overall this statement is blatantly false. v6 packet processing by routers is much much harder due to the variable length headers. > The IPv6 subnet size is standardized by fixing the size of the host identifier portion of an address to 64 bits. Ok, this one is true. Not entirely sure why the author considers this better, but sure, I'll agree.
    - peanut-walrus 5y ago
      To add to this, what I would like to see in IPv6 personally: 1) Ability to get a personal prefix as a private individual or a small company (not a LIR or LIR-sponsored) 2) Ability to use that prefix with any ISP I choose - similar to how a consumer can migrate their cellphone number to a different provider. 3) RFC 6275 actually implemented There are other bits and pieces, but I believe if these with 3 things were done, IPv6 would actually have a "killer app" which would make a strong argument for migrating over to v6.
laszlokorte 5y ago
It says the O2 (ISP) has no IPv6 support but as a O2 DSL customer in Germany I have an IPv6 address for at least a few years.
- Aissen 5y ago
  Yet their website is not available over IPv6: https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/master/conf.yaml#L379 https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/master/conf.yaml#L3...
quantico 5y ago
It feels ironic to post this on a site which itself does not support IPv6.
- woxko 5y ago
  In what way would using ipv6 enhance your experience using this site?
  - slater 5y ago
    One less reason to take up gardening? /s
  - axiosgunnar 5y ago
    In what way would using ipv6 enhance your experience using the sites listed on the site?
    - woxko 5y ago
      None, I also think the site is stupid.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - FranchuFranchu 5y ago
    Obviously, anyone already using this site can already afford IPv4
  - MayeulC 5y ago
    The site becomes reachable to IPv6-only hosts. Some servers can work reliably with only IPv6, for instance, until you need to contact IPv4-only servers. I would like my mail server to be IPv6-only, but that's not currently possible, for instance. I wonder how many customers can realistically hide behind a single IPv4 (CGNAT), given that there are 65535 TCP/UDP ports.
    - 5y ago
cbg0 5y ago
It seems this site relies on a check for the domains' AAAA records to see if they support IPv6. Doesn't have anything to do with IPv6 in the products/apps that those sites offer.
- junon 5y ago
  That's a bit of an unfair argument. The site's intent is to show the general population's ability to organically reach those sites with ipv6. AAAA records are necessary for that to happen.
  - remram 5y ago
    If you can reach the Steam website to buy a game and then you can't install it, because the site has IPv6 but the app doesn't, it is much worse.
    - junon 5y ago
      Why does that make a difference? You can have both.
      - remram 5y ago
        We should have both, that's the point, to which you replied that "the site's intent is to show the general population's ability to organically reach those sites". I disagree with you, for many of those apps having only the website's status in the dashboard is insufficient.
MrksHfmn 5y ago
I always use: https://www.mythic-beasts.com/ipv6/health-check https://www.mythic-beasts.com/ipv6/health-check?
fintler 5y ago
A basic understanding of what an IPv6 world will look like really didn't click for me until I read the IPv6 Address Planning book by Tom Coffeen. Before that, I really just saw it as IPv4 with longer addresses. Once you dig into the details, you come to the realization that it's a nearly complete reinvention of IPv4. Network planning looks quite different (especially when it comes to subnets) when you plan them with only IPv6 in mind. Earlier this year, I was like: "Wow, Comcast gives me a /60! That should be more address space than I could ever want or use." Now, I'm thinking: "A /60 is way too limited, I wish I had a /52 or a /56 instead -- why is Comcast so restrictive with giving out address space?" I'm currently reading the IPv6 for IPv4 Experts book to try to fill in more details: https://sites.google.com/site/yartikhiy/home/ipv6book https://sites.google.com/site/yartikhiy/home/ipv6book The more I read about it, the more I feel like I have a long way to go before I really get an intuitive understanding.
- Scene_Cast2 5y ago
  Could you give a brief overview of your current understanding? I'm curious as to why /60 would be too limited, and how it's different from IPv4.
  - amarshall 5y ago
    Probably because /64 is the smallest recommended subnet size, and a /60 has “only” 16 /64 subnets within it.
  - gorgoiler 5y ago
    [not OP, but hey…] There’s no need for DHCP with IPv6. Clients choose the last 64 bits of an address randomly. The address space is huge — zero probability of a duplicate address. The first 64 bits therefore identify the network. If your ISP routes a /60 to you then you get to split that into 16x /64s. That’s probably fine, but the IETF recommendation is to dish out a /56 to small sites and give them a /48 if they ask for it. ISPs usually have multiple /32s at their disposal. It’s not about number of available addresses or networks. The joy of IPv6 is the addresses are so wide you can bring back hierarchical addressing. No internal routing chicanery is needed. If your site has 64 buildings then a /56 lets you assign a /62 to each, with 4x VLANs in each building eg for printers, guest net, phones, lighting, admin, with even a subnet for each business function in the building.
TekMol 5y ago
I will start thinking about supporting IPv6 when Docker supports it out of the box. Hopefully, then I can test an individual application by running it in a container with "docker run -p [::1]:80:80 ...". I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of fiddling with the docker demon and setting up a custom network.
- nicolaslem 5y ago
  I host Internet facing docker containers that support IPv6 with '--net=host'. For those who don't know, this allows to run a container with exactly the same characteristics as a normal process network wise.
  - TekMol 5y ago
    Yes, that works. I am not comfortable giving a container full control over the host network though. I have not looked into the security implications of it but I would expect it is dangerous for the host.
- maccolgan 5y ago
  It's not even complicated at this point, just delegate an prefix in daemon.json and it'll all work automatically, even better if you use compose.
  - fulafel 5y ago
    The problem with Docker is that assumptions of NAT and proxies are built-in quite deeply into the v4 networking functionality and defaults. With v4 it just exposes NATed rfc1918 space subnets to containers with a hardcoded prefix that's by default the same for all Docker installations in the world. The sensible way to use it in the ipv6 world would be to give Docker its own globally routable prefix(es) acquired via eg dhcpv6 prefix delegation. The current manual prefix configuration is not how things should work in v6.
joeframbach 5y ago
You and I have very different opinions about what constitutes a major website. Gentoo isn't exactly on a lot of people's bookmarks bar. Maybe try https://www.alexa.com/topsites https://www.alexa.com/topsites instead, and you can give adoption statistics by hits/population rather than number of sites.
jtchang 5y ago
IPv6 has barely a carrot and no stick. Does anyone give me more money for using IPv6? Sure I might be able to save some money by not using IPv4 but that is rare. Government doesn't incentivize it. Ad networks don't either. There is very little penalty (financial or otherwise) for not going to IPv6. IPv6 will not happen until those sticks and carrots get bigger.
- floatboth 5y ago
  Just now on the frontpage also: a link to Hetzner's announcement of v4 address prices. Stick is coming on the hosting side.
  - tialaramex 5y ago
    It's actually crazy how late this was. Because customers don't like to see forty surcharges, you have an incentive to bundle relatively cheap things most or all customers want. What gets bundled and what doesn't is somewhat† a matter of company preference. And once IPv4 exhaustion was on the horizon, charging IPv4 separately made a lot of sense yet very few providers did it. † The EU hates "hidden fees". If your product claims to cost €100 but actually there's no way to only buy the €100 product, you need "delivery" for €25 more because there's no practical way to avoid getting it delivered - that's not legal. Likewise if you claim it costs €100 but there's no way to pay cash, and all card payments have a 5% surcharge, you're going to either have to eat that surcharge, or advertise the price including the card surcharge.
- oofabz 5y ago
  IPv6 is faster and more reliable because the user can connect to your site natively instead of going through NAT and CGNAT.
  - post-it 5y ago
    The only NAT between most users and most sites are the users' modem/router combos, and those are pretty fast and reliable.
berniemadoff69 5y ago
the 'funny' factor is totally unnecessary.. "yes" "no" or "somewhat" would have been much better and straightforward if you wanted to convey some information about the ipv6 status of these sites.
jaredandrews 5y ago
> Nope. Ever thought about gardening instead? I'm not really a backend/server person... Is this an inside joke that I just don't understand?
- dylan604 5y ago
  Nope. Ever thought about gardening instead? ;-)
divros 5y ago
The low Ipv6 domain adoption is due (in my opinion) To not every one have Ipv6 so in your dns you need to have ipv4,to not lost this audience. After it can be related to protection system like waf. The majority of isp give a /60 cidr to every one so it's easy to have a lot of ip. Some company like cloudflare have a mapping system from Ipv6 to ipv4 (of course with a lot of collision) and low number of procetion service provide a good detection system for Ipv6 one So majority of system in customer stack is not ready for Ipv6 I can understand you will not consume some time for low number of benefits. (Ipv6 it help a bit all tracking system )
Fidelix 5y ago
The lack of IPv6 support this site shows is mainly due to lack of support from CDNs. They won't run out of IPv4s anytime soon, so don't expect this list to change drastically in less than 10 years.
- wmf 5y ago
  What CDNs don't support IPv6?
  - ATsch 5y ago
    At this point most of them do, but also require customers to explicitly opt-in. I think cloudflare is the only exception there, it won't even let you opt out unless you're on a paid plan.
    - hansel_der 5y ago
      > it won't even let you opt out unless you're on a paid plan kinda ironic how this paints ipv4-only with a premium flair
hawkice 5y ago
Just to check, I can make my website available only through IPv6 and this won't cause any issues?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ATsch 5y ago
  That is not advisable right now as you'll cut off a lot of users. Some providers like unglei.ch do offer an IPv4->IPv6 proxy if you absolutely don't want to deal with IPv4 though.
  - hawkice 5y ago
    Sort of seems like it doesn't matter who uses ipv6 on their servers, then. If ipv4 is mandatory, who cares that you COULD connect another way? Isn't the first step getting all clients able to use it?
bsdubernerd 5y ago
I've supported v6 on a few small sites hosting OSS projects for almost a decade now, and I kept statistics over the years. The increase in v6 adoption has been glacial. Less than 1% increase per year. My own connectivity at home doesn't support v6 due to my ISP. At work, v6 is so badly managed it's the first thing we rule out when diagnosing connectivity issues. Kind of a sad state really. I wish v4 prices increased tenfold, not barely double.
tibbon 5y ago
I don’t think our site supports IPv6 yet fully. If I were to go to my CTO tomorrow and try to pitch them that this is a priority, what would I tell them? How do I justify this work? Marginally cheaper addresses don’t impact our scale compared to the work cost involved. We are big enough to be mentioned front page NYT at least once a month, but this just doesn’t seem to matter (yet) for us
- Dagger2 5y ago
  There are latency benefits, which translate into higher user engagement metrics. If your site sells things or has advertising, that means you get more money. See https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG76/1991/20190610_Howard_Prisoner_Of_Ipv4_v1.pdf https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG76/1991/... / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76XbdedSrww https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76XbdedSrww for a talk about that. It shouldn't be much extra work if you roll it into your other admin tasks. Any time you're turning v4 up, turn v6 up too and you'll get there easily enough.
floatboth 5y ago
Come on GitHub >_< https://github.community/t/cannot-reach-any-github-io-page-via-ipv6/10310/37 https://github.community/t/cannot-reach-any-github-io-page-v...

148 points by DanAtC 5y ago

Naac 5y ago

That table isn't very helpful. What does it mean for Arch Linux to have IPv6 support? When you say "Amazon" doesn't have IPv6 support, do you mean AWS, the retail store? It would be better if instead of linking to say, archlinux.org, you link to the actual page describing what specifically about Arch is IPv6, same for all the other endpoints. I would also replace the support sentence with a green/yellow/red color checkbox, and get rid of the twitter link.

capableweb 5y ago
Link to the source is in the bottom of the page. hosts: - www.archlinux.org - aur.archlinux.org https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/bd581ac70b900ba0c1c38d9dbc06d0ae80832f91/conf.yaml#L56-L62 https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/bd581ac70b900ba0c1c... hosts: - amazon.com - www.amazon.com https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/bd581ac70b900ba0c1c38d9dbc06d0ae80832f91/conf.yaml#L41-L47 https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/bd581ac70b900ba0c1c... Generally, when people write "Amazon" they mean the store (amazon.com) and when people write "AWS" they are referring to the infrastructure provider. I agree that the URLs being tested should be visible on the page, so you don't have to lookup the source. With that said, not sure how useful it is to say that (aur.)archlinux.org has IPv6 enabled, what you really care about is the repositories and so on, but those are all spread out so it'll be hard to test all of them. At least could test the official mirrors.

kd913 5y ago

How accurate is this? Steam I know has some ipv6 support for downloads whilst here it says it has no support at all.

ntrz 5y ago
Seems like it tests a limited list[0] of domains associated with the site or service, with the final result based on a check of their DNS records. For Steam, looks like it only checks <store.steampowered.com>, <steamcommunity.com>, and <help.steampowered.com>. It'd be nice if the site provided an explanation of the process, maybe with some way to expand a particular entry and see which associated domains were tested and which succeeded/failed. [0] https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/master/conf.yaml https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/master/conf.yaml
pfranz 5y ago
Like another commenter mentioned, it would be nice if there was a detail page showing what no, partial, or full support means. I plugged a few of these into https://ipv6-test.com/validate.php https://ipv6-test.com/validate.php (a random site I found) and store.steampowered.com has no AAAA record, twitter.com has no AAAA record (this site says it has partial support), www.ubuntu.com has an AAAA DNS record, an IPv6 webserver, but not an IPv6 DNS server (this site says its supported).

lovecg 5y ago

There’s probably a good reason for it, but I’ve never understood why IPv6 couldn’t be fully backwards compatible. Then there would be no need to migrate - everyone would be already on IPv6 by definition.

bejelentkezni 5y ago
If I recall correctly, ipv6 addresses beginning with 0::0:ffff are mapped 1-to-1 with ipv4 addresses.
- lovecg 5y ago
  I’m mostly still annoyed about the colon. Come on, ip:port is a pretty widely used convention people! The number of parsing bugs I had to fix with the migration…
  - fulafel 5y ago
    On the plus side the schedule was reasonable, you had time since the 1990s :)
    - lovecg 5y ago
      The flip side is job security so it’s not all bad :)
  - Dagger2 5y ago
    It is today, but what about at the time it was picked? Software from that era (e.g. telnet) take their hostname/service arguments as two strings (e.g. `telnet 127.1 ssh`). I believe ip:port comes from URLs, the RFC for which was published at the end of 1994, which is about the same time that v6 was being developed. So it's not clear that the fault isn't on the URL side, or on the side of software using URL conventions when they're not using URLs. Note that staying with "." wasn't an option, due to ambiguity with DNS. (Consider something like "2001.db8.3.4.5.6.7.be": is that an IP or a hostname under .be?)
5y ago

obedm 5y ago

Can someone explain to me what does IPv6 offer that's IPv4 doesn't? Apart from way more addresses. A good article would suffice.

loeg 5y ago
> A good article would suffice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6#Main_features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6#Main_features
- peanut-walrus 5y ago
  None of that is actually true though? > It simplifies aspects of address configuration I assume this is referring to SLAAC? SLAAC is...fine. Most managed networks will want the extra control offered by DHCP though and DHCPv6 is currently in a much much worse state than DHCPv4. Also a single interface having at least 2, usually 3 or more (link-local, autogenerated, privacy) v6 addresses on the network is definitely not simpler in any way. Also clients still have not figured out which configuration methods they should actually support - Linux network managers generally default to SLAAC-only and DHCP needs to be explicitly enabled, for Windows setting managed flag in RA works, I believe. Android does not support DCHPv6 at all. > network renumbering and router announcements when changing network connectivity providers. Absolutely not. Network renumbering is a breeze when all you need to change is the public address of your gateway and the local network keeps the same local addresses. Prefix translation is awful and no firewalls have good tools to handle changing your v6 prefix. > It simplifies processing of packets in routers by placing the responsibility for packet fragmentation into the end points. With respect to fragmentation - yes, but overall this statement is blatantly false. v6 packet processing by routers is much much harder due to the variable length headers. > The IPv6 subnet size is standardized by fixing the size of the host identifier portion of an address to 64 bits. Ok, this one is true. Not entirely sure why the author considers this better, but sure, I'll agree.
  - peanut-walrus 5y ago
    To add to this, what I would like to see in IPv6 personally: 1) Ability to get a personal prefix as a private individual or a small company (not a LIR or LIR-sponsored) 2) Ability to use that prefix with any ISP I choose - similar to how a consumer can migrate their cellphone number to a different provider. 3) RFC 6275 actually implemented There are other bits and pieces, but I believe if these with 3 things were done, IPv6 would actually have a "killer app" which would make a strong argument for migrating over to v6.

laszlokorte 5y ago

It says the O2 (ISP) has no IPv6 support but as a O2 DSL customer in Germany I have an IPv6 address for at least a few years.

Aissen 5y ago
Yet their website is not available over IPv6: https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/master/conf.yaml#L379 https://github.com/andir/ipv6.watch/blob/master/conf.yaml#L3...

quantico 5y ago

It feels ironic to post this on a site which itself does not support IPv6.

woxko 5y ago
In what way would using ipv6 enhance your experience using this site?
- slater 5y ago
  One less reason to take up gardening? /s
- axiosgunnar 5y ago
  In what way would using ipv6 enhance your experience using the sites listed on the site?
  - woxko 5y ago
    None, I also think the site is stupid.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- FranchuFranchu 5y ago
  Obviously, anyone already using this site can already afford IPv4
- MayeulC 5y ago
  The site becomes reachable to IPv6-only hosts. Some servers can work reliably with only IPv6, for instance, until you need to contact IPv4-only servers. I would like my mail server to be IPv6-only, but that's not currently possible, for instance. I wonder how many customers can realistically hide behind a single IPv4 (CGNAT), given that there are 65535 TCP/UDP ports.
  - 5y ago

cbg0 5y ago

It seems this site relies on a check for the domains' AAAA records to see if they support IPv6. Doesn't have anything to do with IPv6 in the products/apps that those sites offer.

junon 5y ago
That's a bit of an unfair argument. The site's intent is to show the general population's ability to organically reach those sites with ipv6. AAAA records are necessary for that to happen.
- remram 5y ago
  If you can reach the Steam website to buy a game and then you can't install it, because the site has IPv6 but the app doesn't, it is much worse.
  - junon 5y ago
    Why does that make a difference? You can have both.
    - remram 5y ago
      We should have both, that's the point, to which you replied that "the site's intent is to show the general population's ability to organically reach those sites". I disagree with you, for many of those apps having only the website's status in the dashboard is insufficient.

MrksHfmn 5y ago

I always use: https://www.mythic-beasts.com/ipv6/health-check https://www.mythic-beasts.com/ipv6/health-check?

fintler 5y ago

A basic understanding of what an IPv6 world will look like really didn't click for me until I read the IPv6 Address Planning book by Tom Coffeen. Before that, I really just saw it as IPv4 with longer addresses. Once you dig into the details, you come to the realization that it's a nearly complete reinvention of IPv4. Network planning looks quite different (especially when it comes to subnets) when you plan them with only IPv6 in mind. Earlier this year, I was like: "Wow, Comcast gives me a /60! That should be more address space than I could ever want or use." Now, I'm thinking: "A /60 is way too limited, I wish I had a /52 or a /56 instead -- why is Comcast so restrictive with giving out address space?" I'm currently reading the IPv6 for IPv4 Experts book to try to fill in more details: https://sites.google.com/site/yartikhiy/home/ipv6book https://sites.google.com/site/yartikhiy/home/ipv6book The more I read about it, the more I feel like I have a long way to go before I really get an intuitive understanding.

Scene_Cast2 5y ago
Could you give a brief overview of your current understanding? I'm curious as to why /60 would be too limited, and how it's different from IPv4.
- amarshall 5y ago
  Probably because /64 is the smallest recommended subnet size, and a /60 has “only” 16 /64 subnets within it.
- gorgoiler 5y ago
  [not OP, but hey…] There’s no need for DHCP with IPv6. Clients choose the last 64 bits of an address randomly. The address space is huge — zero probability of a duplicate address. The first 64 bits therefore identify the network. If your ISP routes a /60 to you then you get to split that into 16x /64s. That’s probably fine, but the IETF recommendation is to dish out a /56 to small sites and give them a /48 if they ask for it. ISPs usually have multiple /32s at their disposal. It’s not about number of available addresses or networks. The joy of IPv6 is the addresses are so wide you can bring back hierarchical addressing. No internal routing chicanery is needed. If your site has 64 buildings then a /56 lets you assign a /62 to each, with 4x VLANs in each building eg for printers, guest net, phones, lighting, admin, with even a subnet for each business function in the building.

TekMol 5y ago

I will start thinking about supporting IPv6 when Docker supports it out of the box. Hopefully, then I can test an individual application by running it in a container with "docker run -p [::1]:80:80 ...". I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of fiddling with the docker demon and setting up a custom network.

nicolaslem 5y ago
I host Internet facing docker containers that support IPv6 with '--net=host'. For those who don't know, this allows to run a container with exactly the same characteristics as a normal process network wise.
- TekMol 5y ago
  Yes, that works. I am not comfortable giving a container full control over the host network though. I have not looked into the security implications of it but I would expect it is dangerous for the host.
maccolgan 5y ago
It's not even complicated at this point, just delegate an prefix in daemon.json and it'll all work automatically, even better if you use compose.
- fulafel 5y ago
  The problem with Docker is that assumptions of NAT and proxies are built-in quite deeply into the v4 networking functionality and defaults. With v4 it just exposes NATed rfc1918 space subnets to containers with a hardcoded prefix that's by default the same for all Docker installations in the world. The sensible way to use it in the ipv6 world would be to give Docker its own globally routable prefix(es) acquired via eg dhcpv6 prefix delegation. The current manual prefix configuration is not how things should work in v6.

joeframbach 5y ago

You and I have very different opinions about what constitutes a major website. Gentoo isn't exactly on a lot of people's bookmarks bar. Maybe try https://www.alexa.com/topsites https://www.alexa.com/topsites instead, and you can give adoption statistics by hits/population rather than number of sites.

jtchang 5y ago

IPv6 has barely a carrot and no stick. Does anyone give me more money for using IPv6? Sure I might be able to save some money by not using IPv4 but that is rare. Government doesn't incentivize it. Ad networks don't either. There is very little penalty (financial or otherwise) for not going to IPv6. IPv6 will not happen until those sticks and carrots get bigger.

floatboth 5y ago
Just now on the frontpage also: a link to Hetzner's announcement of v4 address prices. Stick is coming on the hosting side.
- tialaramex 5y ago
  It's actually crazy how late this was. Because customers don't like to see forty surcharges, you have an incentive to bundle relatively cheap things most or all customers want. What gets bundled and what doesn't is somewhat† a matter of company preference. And once IPv4 exhaustion was on the horizon, charging IPv4 separately made a lot of sense yet very few providers did it. † The EU hates "hidden fees". If your product claims to cost €100 but actually there's no way to only buy the €100 product, you need "delivery" for €25 more because there's no practical way to avoid getting it delivered - that's not legal. Likewise if you claim it costs €100 but there's no way to pay cash, and all card payments have a 5% surcharge, you're going to either have to eat that surcharge, or advertise the price including the card surcharge.
oofabz 5y ago
IPv6 is faster and more reliable because the user can connect to your site natively instead of going through NAT and CGNAT.
- post-it 5y ago
  The only NAT between most users and most sites are the users' modem/router combos, and those are pretty fast and reliable.

berniemadoff69 5y ago

the 'funny' factor is totally unnecessary.. "yes" "no" or "somewhat" would have been much better and straightforward if you wanted to convey some information about the ipv6 status of these sites.

jaredandrews 5y ago

> Nope. Ever thought about gardening instead? I'm not really a backend/server person... Is this an inside joke that I just don't understand?

dylan604 5y ago
Nope. Ever thought about gardening instead? ;-)

divros 5y ago

The low Ipv6 domain adoption is due (in my opinion) To not every one have Ipv6 so in your dns you need to have ipv4,to not lost this audience. After it can be related to protection system like waf. The majority of isp give a /60 cidr to every one so it's easy to have a lot of ip. Some company like cloudflare have a mapping system from Ipv6 to ipv4 (of course with a lot of collision) and low number of procetion service provide a good detection system for Ipv6 one So majority of system in customer stack is not ready for Ipv6 I can understand you will not consume some time for low number of benefits. (Ipv6 it help a bit all tracking system )

Fidelix 5y ago

The lack of IPv6 support this site shows is mainly due to lack of support from CDNs. They won't run out of IPv4s anytime soon, so don't expect this list to change drastically in less than 10 years.

wmf 5y ago
What CDNs don't support IPv6?
- ATsch 5y ago
  At this point most of them do, but also require customers to explicitly opt-in. I think cloudflare is the only exception there, it won't even let you opt out unless you're on a paid plan.
  - hansel_der 5y ago
    > it won't even let you opt out unless you're on a paid plan kinda ironic how this paints ipv4-only with a premium flair

hawkice 5y ago

Just to check, I can make my website available only through IPv6 and this won't cause any issues?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ATsch 5y ago
That is not advisable right now as you'll cut off a lot of users. Some providers like unglei.ch do offer an IPv4->IPv6 proxy if you absolutely don't want to deal with IPv4 though.
- hawkice 5y ago
  Sort of seems like it doesn't matter who uses ipv6 on their servers, then. If ipv4 is mandatory, who cares that you COULD connect another way? Isn't the first step getting all clients able to use it?

bsdubernerd 5y ago

I've supported v6 on a few small sites hosting OSS projects for almost a decade now, and I kept statistics over the years. The increase in v6 adoption has been glacial. Less than 1% increase per year. My own connectivity at home doesn't support v6 due to my ISP. At work, v6 is so badly managed it's the first thing we rule out when diagnosing connectivity issues. Kind of a sad state really. I wish v4 prices increased tenfold, not barely double.

tibbon 5y ago

I don’t think our site supports IPv6 yet fully. If I were to go to my CTO tomorrow and try to pitch them that this is a priority, what would I tell them? How do I justify this work? Marginally cheaper addresses don’t impact our scale compared to the work cost involved. We are big enough to be mentioned front page NYT at least once a month, but this just doesn’t seem to matter (yet) for us

Dagger2 5y ago
There are latency benefits, which translate into higher user engagement metrics. If your site sells things or has advertising, that means you get more money. See https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG76/1991/20190610_Howard_Prisoner_Of_Ipv4_v1.pdf https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG76/1991/... / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76XbdedSrww https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76XbdedSrww for a talk about that. It shouldn't be much extra work if you roll it into your other admin tasks. Any time you're turning v4 up, turn v6 up too and you'll get there easily enough.

floatboth 5y ago

Come on GitHub >_< https://github.community/t/cannot-reach-any-github-io-page-via-ipv6/10310/37 https://github.community/t/cannot-reach-any-github-io-page-v...