5 ms·

This year they introduced the RAV4 prime, with 48 miles electric. The Prius prime is still in it's initial design iteration. Major updates occur typically eve

This year they introduced the RAV4 prime, with 48 miles electric. The Prius prime is still in it's initial design iteration. Major updates occur typically every 7 years for auto manufacturers, so one would expect a new, improved range Prius prime somewhere in the 2023 range.

KMnO4 5y ago
48 miles is probably good enough for 95%+ of people. Also worth noting that that’s higher than any other PHEV in its class (SUV).
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  The rav4 Prime is sufficient at nearly 50 miles of electric range, but it sucks that it took 2 decades to get there when even GM had the technology basically perfected a decade ago with the Volt. It’s literally better than their hydrogen vehicles. Even if you had to synthesize the small amount of gasoline they might use. Longer range plug in hybrids plus electrically synthesized liquids beat pure hydrogen vehicles in cost, refueling ease, and overall emissions.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > GM had the technology basically perfected a decade ago with the Volt. The Volt is tiny car with limited utility. The RAV4 EV has vastly more cargo and passenger space. For a single person going from point A to point B it might not matter, but the technical challenge of battery range plus utility isn't the same as battery range disregarding utility.
    - Robotbeat 5y ago
      I have a Volt and it's awesome. It's a hatchback with lots of cargo space (5 seats in the Gen 2 Volt, too). Don't know that you mean about "limited utility." The Volt powertrain would've worked fine in a crossover vehicle like the Rav4 with only a small scale-up.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > I have a Volt and it's awesome. It's a hatchback with lots of cargo space It has 10.6 ft³ of cargo space. A Yaris (a subcompact) hatchback has 15.4 ft³, Prius Prime has 19.8 ft³, Honda Civic Hatchback has 24.5 ft³, RAV4 Prime has 33.6 ft³ (for models with folding seats, those are all without seats folded.) The Volt doesn't have “lots” of cargo space, it has miserably small cargo space whether compared against other compact cars or other PHEVs.
        yurishimo 5y ago
        Depends on where they're located. Outside America, subcompact cars are still the norm unless you need the utility of something large for your immediate family/job. Only got 2 kids? Subcompact.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Outside America, subcompact cars are still the norm unless you need the utility of something large for your immediate family/job. Yes, and by that standard the Volt is a big car (not a subcompact), but still has small cargo space for a hatchback (2/3 of a Yaris, which is a subcompact.) By American standards, its a fairly small car that has very small cargo space relative to its size, and so tiny cargo space compared to what the market expects. And also small compared to competing PHEVs, which to be fair generally also have small cargo space relative to size.
- TheParkShark 5y ago
  It may be good but no one (in America) wants 48 miles. People complain about the range on current EV’s during winter. A nice round number like 100 has a much better chance of appealing to consumers.
  - jeeeb 5y ago
    Right but the advantage of a PHEV is that it can switch to using its ICE. With a full tank you should have a range of 1000km+. Theoretically (if it works well) it’s an EV for short trips combined with an ICE for longer trips in a single car. That should overcome the range and charge time objections to BEVs.
    - fomine3 5y ago
      Bonus from ICE is that it generates massive waste heats, so the heat can be used for heater in winter.
cmrdporcupine 5y ago
But can that 48 miles be exclusively electric or does it fall back to turning on the ICE every time you punch the accelerator? This is my grief of every PHEV I've tried other than the Volt; they cannot be driven as a true EV even when the battery is full because they use the ICE for performance boost, etc. The Volt runs better without the ICE.
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  I have the Prius prime, it gets a little over 25 mi EV-only and the only time it needs to burn gasoline is if you turn on the windshield defroster because the heat pump can only do so much I guess. But the performance feels much sportier in EV mode and it has no trouble pulling up to 80mph without any ICE
  - asdff 5y ago
    25mi EV only is like an electric scooter range.
    - philistine 5y ago
      Yes it is, very much so. You need to know your needs well to maximize your purchase, but for us it was cheaper than a Leaf to buy and it works exquisitely. I only hoped Toyota had never bet on Hydrogen for everyone, and ended up with zero-emissions in the hands of no one.
    - jazzyjackson 5y ago
      I live in a small town so the only time I drive more than 25 mi in a day is when I'm driving 200+ miles, and then I'm glad it takes gasoline. But yes, 50 mi would be better, but they already took the spare tire out to make room for battery as is (out of curiosity I googled it and wow, Tesla's don't have a spare either. That's probably my least favorite thing, I had to get towed my first week in the car because of the wimpy high-efficiency tires.)
reducesuffering 5y ago
RAV4 prime is woefully underproduced. Wait times of 2 years, and it'll be almost impossible to get in areas outside of coastal US. Sounds like they haven't nailed down the battery supply chain for it.

KMnO4 5y ago

48 miles is probably good enough for 95%+ of people. Also worth noting that that’s higher than any other PHEV in its class (SUV).

Robotbeat 5y ago
The rav4 Prime is sufficient at nearly 50 miles of electric range, but it sucks that it took 2 decades to get there when even GM had the technology basically perfected a decade ago with the Volt. It’s literally better than their hydrogen vehicles. Even if you had to synthesize the small amount of gasoline they might use. Longer range plug in hybrids plus electrically synthesized liquids beat pure hydrogen vehicles in cost, refueling ease, and overall emissions.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > GM had the technology basically perfected a decade ago with the Volt. The Volt is tiny car with limited utility. The RAV4 EV has vastly more cargo and passenger space. For a single person going from point A to point B it might not matter, but the technical challenge of battery range plus utility isn't the same as battery range disregarding utility.
  - Robotbeat 5y ago
    I have a Volt and it's awesome. It's a hatchback with lots of cargo space (5 seats in the Gen 2 Volt, too). Don't know that you mean about "limited utility." The Volt powertrain would've worked fine in a crossover vehicle like the Rav4 with only a small scale-up.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > I have a Volt and it's awesome. It's a hatchback with lots of cargo space It has 10.6 ft³ of cargo space. A Yaris (a subcompact) hatchback has 15.4 ft³, Prius Prime has 19.8 ft³, Honda Civic Hatchback has 24.5 ft³, RAV4 Prime has 33.6 ft³ (for models with folding seats, those are all without seats folded.) The Volt doesn't have “lots” of cargo space, it has miserably small cargo space whether compared against other compact cars or other PHEVs.
      - yurishimo 5y ago
        Depends on where they're located. Outside America, subcompact cars are still the norm unless you need the utility of something large for your immediate family/job. Only got 2 kids? Subcompact.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Outside America, subcompact cars are still the norm unless you need the utility of something large for your immediate family/job. Yes, and by that standard the Volt is a big car (not a subcompact), but still has small cargo space for a hatchback (2/3 of a Yaris, which is a subcompact.) By American standards, its a fairly small car that has very small cargo space relative to its size, and so tiny cargo space compared to what the market expects. And also small compared to competing PHEVs, which to be fair generally also have small cargo space relative to size.
TheParkShark 5y ago
It may be good but no one (in America) wants 48 miles. People complain about the range on current EV’s during winter. A nice round number like 100 has a much better chance of appealing to consumers.
- jeeeb 5y ago
  Right but the advantage of a PHEV is that it can switch to using its ICE. With a full tank you should have a range of 1000km+. Theoretically (if it works well) it’s an EV for short trips combined with an ICE for longer trips in a single car. That should overcome the range and charge time objections to BEVs.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Bonus from ICE is that it generates massive waste heats, so the heat can be used for heater in winter.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago

But can that 48 miles be exclusively electric or does it fall back to turning on the ICE every time you punch the accelerator? This is my grief of every PHEV I've tried other than the Volt; they cannot be driven as a true EV even when the battery is full because they use the ICE for performance boost, etc. The Volt runs better without the ICE.

jazzyjackson 5y ago
I have the Prius prime, it gets a little over 25 mi EV-only and the only time it needs to burn gasoline is if you turn on the windshield defroster because the heat pump can only do so much I guess. But the performance feels much sportier in EV mode and it has no trouble pulling up to 80mph without any ICE
- asdff 5y ago
  25mi EV only is like an electric scooter range.
  - philistine 5y ago
    Yes it is, very much so. You need to know your needs well to maximize your purchase, but for us it was cheaper than a Leaf to buy and it works exquisitely. I only hoped Toyota had never bet on Hydrogen for everyone, and ended up with zero-emissions in the hands of no one.
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    I live in a small town so the only time I drive more than 25 mi in a day is when I'm driving 200+ miles, and then I'm glad it takes gasoline. But yes, 50 mi would be better, but they already took the spare tire out to make room for battery as is (out of curiosity I googled it and wow, Tesla's don't have a spare either. That's probably my least favorite thing, I had to get towed my first week in the car because of the wimpy high-efficiency tires.)

reducesuffering 5y ago

RAV4 prime is woefully underproduced. Wait times of 2 years, and it'll be almost impossible to get in areas outside of coastal US. Sounds like they haven't nailed down the battery supply chain for it.