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Toyota, Hyundai and Honda have all bet on H2. That's just as green, and electric as a Tesla. The tech works, refuels 10x faster than any battery based car, bu

Toyota, Hyundai and Honda have all bet on H2. That's just as green, and electric as a Tesla. The tech works, refuels 10x faster than any battery based car, but so far no adoption outside of europe and asian countries. That's a phenomenal achievement. They chose wrong maybe, but they chose, and chose a path they though most viable. To claim they aren't in the game is beyond unfair.

fiftyfifty 5y ago
Tesla invested a significant amount of money into building out a charging network for their cars. Toyota has been selling fuel cell vehicles for longer than Tesla has been in existence and they've made no such effort to create a network of hydrogen fueling stations. Even now with the threat of battery electric vehicles becoming the next platform for personal transportation Toyota continues to sit on it's hands when it comes to supporting it's own technology. Even their lobbying efforts aren't around trying to push hydrogen, it's around protecting their hybrid and gasoline vehicle business. Their actual efforts around hydrogen vehicles tells you everything you need to know: it's not viable and they know it. Toyota could be selling as many Mirais as Tesla sells vehicles, the demand is clearly there and people would pay a hefty price to get them like they do for Teslas. So why don't they?
eyesee 5y ago
H2 does not, and cannot offer the end-to-end efficiency of battery electric vehicles. The distribution infrastructure for H2 is inherently less efficient than electricity distribution alone, making BEVs 3x more efficient: https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/04/hybrid_hydrogen_vs_electric_chart-e1461680641695.jpg?quality=82&strip=all https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/04/hybri... The primary advantage is faster refueling. The price is no in-home refueling -- a big win for BEVs, as most trips will not require refueling on the road. There are also real safety concerns about storing and transporting H2 at very high pressure.
nickik 5y ago
> That's just as green Complete nonsense. Most Hydrogen is produced with natural gas. And the conversion makes and end to end efficiency makes it actually far worse both economically and environmentally. Maybe in some imaginary future that will not actually happen it is as green. > refuels 10x faster than any battery based car Waste overestimation and in reality even if that was true, you are gone spend 100x more times refueling then in an EV. Because EV you simply charge at home and 99% you not gone use any fuel-station. And Hydrogen charging station still have many problems if you actually attempted to have a high volume of cars using them. > They chose wrong maybe, but they chose, and chose a path they though most viable. The path that would give them the most government subsidies and allow them to delay EVs as long as possible. > To claim they aren't in the game is beyond unfair. Go look at how many actually FCV have been sold.
srg0 5y ago
What is your source that Hyundai is all in on hydrogen? Hyundai has Kona, and at least according to this press release intends to be the top 3 EV manufacturer by 2025: https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-motor-unveils-strategy-2025-roadmap.html https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-...

fiftyfifty 5y ago

Tesla invested a significant amount of money into building out a charging network for their cars. Toyota has been selling fuel cell vehicles for longer than Tesla has been in existence and they've made no such effort to create a network of hydrogen fueling stations. Even now with the threat of battery electric vehicles becoming the next platform for personal transportation Toyota continues to sit on it's hands when it comes to supporting it's own technology. Even their lobbying efforts aren't around trying to push hydrogen, it's around protecting their hybrid and gasoline vehicle business. Their actual efforts around hydrogen vehicles tells you everything you need to know: it's not viable and they know it. Toyota could be selling as many Mirais as Tesla sells vehicles, the demand is clearly there and people would pay a hefty price to get them like they do for Teslas. So why don't they?

eyesee 5y ago

H2 does not, and cannot offer the end-to-end efficiency of battery electric vehicles. The distribution infrastructure for H2 is inherently less efficient than electricity distribution alone, making BEVs 3x more efficient: https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/04/hybrid_hydrogen_vs_electric_chart-e1461680641695.jpg?quality=82&strip=all https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/04/hybri... The primary advantage is faster refueling. The price is no in-home refueling -- a big win for BEVs, as most trips will not require refueling on the road. There are also real safety concerns about storing and transporting H2 at very high pressure.

nickik 5y ago

> That's just as green Complete nonsense. Most Hydrogen is produced with natural gas. And the conversion makes and end to end efficiency makes it actually far worse both economically and environmentally. Maybe in some imaginary future that will not actually happen it is as green. > refuels 10x faster than any battery based car Waste overestimation and in reality even if that was true, you are gone spend 100x more times refueling then in an EV. Because EV you simply charge at home and 99% you not gone use any fuel-station. And Hydrogen charging station still have many problems if you actually attempted to have a high volume of cars using them. > They chose wrong maybe, but they chose, and chose a path they though most viable. The path that would give them the most government subsidies and allow them to delay EVs as long as possible. > To claim they aren't in the game is beyond unfair. Go look at how many actually FCV have been sold.

srg0 5y ago

What is your source that Hyundai is all in on hydrogen? Hyundai has Kona, and at least according to this press release intends to be the top 3 EV manufacturer by 2025: https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-motor-unveils-strategy-2025-roadmap.html https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-...