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You lose efficiency when using electricity for electrolysis, compression and transportation of hydrogen. And then through the fuel cell itself which is used to

You lose efficiency when using electricity for electrolysis, compression and transportation of hydrogen. And then through the fuel cell itself which is used to charge a battery. That entire roundabout process results in a pretty low efficiency for hydrogen. Why not skip all those steps and put the electricity right into a battery with little efficiency loss. https://insideevs.com/news/406676/battery-electric-hydrogen-fuel-cell-efficiency-comparison/ https://insideevs.com/news/406676/battery-electric-hydrogen-...

ianai 5y ago
Your comment is OT, but here's a comment I made previously to it ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27872908 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27872908 ) : Even the term “fossil fuels” is an inappropriate framing of the chemicals involved since it restricts their use to burning. Consider the processes involved in their formations: organic material grew for eons millions of years ago. It then had to be buried in just the right conditions and later embedded into even further beneficial conditions. It took millions of years, high temperatures, and high pressures to go from plant material to these complex molecular forms. Then we dig them up or seep them out with fracking and further refine them. Then we burn them. Huge losses of energy all along the way. Using oil as fossil fuel is a huge waste of the energy it took to create those molecules.
- maxerickson 5y ago
  Your esoteric definition of efficiency isn't very useful. If you have solar power, the comparison between storing it in hydrogen using electrolysis or a battery is pretty direct and useful and has fuck all to do with hydrocarbons.
Hypx_ 5y ago
The simplest counter argument is that it’s just cheaper to go with hydrogen. People have created this narrative where “efficiency = cost” when in reality it’s more expensive to go that far in efficiency.
- thehappypm 5y ago
  In what way is hydrogen cheaper?
  - Hypx_ 5y ago
    It's cheaper overall since you don't need to worry about a heavy battery. This is already the case for larger vehicles: https://cafcp.org/sites/default/files/07-24-2020-Foothill-ZEB-Update-to-Board.pdf https://cafcp.org/sites/default/files/07-24-2020-Foothill-ZE... This likely to be true for more types of vehicles as hydrogen gets cheaper.
    - thehappypm 5y ago
      Sure, but you need to carry a fuel cell or ICE, and a hydrogen tank full of hydrogen. I don't think hydrogen based cars will be fundamentally lighter than battery powered ones.

ianai 5y ago

Your comment is OT, but here's a comment I made previously to it ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27872908 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27872908 ) : Even the term “fossil fuels” is an inappropriate framing of the chemicals involved since it restricts their use to burning. Consider the processes involved in their formations: organic material grew for eons millions of years ago. It then had to be buried in just the right conditions and later embedded into even further beneficial conditions. It took millions of years, high temperatures, and high pressures to go from plant material to these complex molecular forms. Then we dig them up or seep them out with fracking and further refine them. Then we burn them. Huge losses of energy all along the way. Using oil as fossil fuel is a huge waste of the energy it took to create those molecules.

maxerickson 5y ago
Your esoteric definition of efficiency isn't very useful. If you have solar power, the comparison between storing it in hydrogen using electrolysis or a battery is pretty direct and useful and has fuck all to do with hydrocarbons.

Hypx_ 5y ago

The simplest counter argument is that it’s just cheaper to go with hydrogen. People have created this narrative where “efficiency = cost” when in reality it’s more expensive to go that far in efficiency.

thehappypm 5y ago
In what way is hydrogen cheaper?
- Hypx_ 5y ago
  It's cheaper overall since you don't need to worry about a heavy battery. This is already the case for larger vehicles: https://cafcp.org/sites/default/files/07-24-2020-Foothill-ZEB-Update-to-Board.pdf https://cafcp.org/sites/default/files/07-24-2020-Foothill-ZE... This likely to be true for more types of vehicles as hydrogen gets cheaper.
  - thehappypm 5y ago
    Sure, but you need to carry a fuel cell or ICE, and a hydrogen tank full of hydrogen. I don't think hydrogen based cars will be fundamentally lighter than battery powered ones.